Try God...

[Esquilax]

And you assert knowledge where there is NONE! What is the Truth?

Oh, please don't start going to presuppositional apologetics now... I thought you had at least some modicum of intelligence and integrity...

Truth is that which can be demonstrated to be true. Demonstrated, not asserted. Just saying something is true isn't enough.

Unless you have an answer as to how "life" came about, you can't disprove that God created it.

Nor do I need to. It is the job of the person making the existential claim to prove it exists. And my not having an answer doesn't immediately make the one you cling to true, either.

And you are making the claim there is no God.

No, I'm not. I'm making the claim that I don't believe you based on a lack of evidence. Atheism isn't a position on creator beings, but on gods: since you guys haven't provided evidence for your claims, we don't believe them. That's all. I'll even acknowledge the fact that there could be a creator, even your god. But since you haven't provided evidence sufficient to justify belief in it, I cannot be rationally justified in believing in your god, and therefore, I do not.

Yet you don't have an answer as to how everything exists.

The difference between our positions is that only one of us is still searching for the truth. The other is lazing back, content that he's found it in the first holy book that appealed to him.

Let me ask you again.... How did everything come into existence? Unless you can give me a concise answer then you have no grounds for saying that God doesn't exist! Simple.

Okay, are you listening? I haven't said that god doesn't exist. I've just said that your case for him is too sparse to justify accepting it as true. I'll believe in your god the moment I have evidence that satisfies me, and not a second before.

Also, I don't need an answer: silence does not mean that your answer is true. That's an argument from ignorance: "anyone got anything better? No? Then I must be right!"

I have "personal" evidence of God. So do most who love Him. That's the way He works!

And is your personal evidence enough to justify me believing? I doubt it: revelation is first person. So I'm quite rational to not believe based on your claims of evidence from god. After all, I wouldn't do that with claims of alien abductions, would you?

I asked you in another thread (which you people just swap responses like musical chairs) you never answered:

What evidence do you need to fall to your knees and worship God?

That's a bit of a loaded question. To accept the existence of god, I would need the same sort of evidence for him as I would need for any other claim of existence: repeatable, falsifiable tests. Or a physical presence. Or photographic records that have clearly not been tampered with. Or any number of things: just ask yourself what you would need to believe that, say, a hundred dollar note exists in my wallet. The answers you come to could be broadly applied to my requirements regarding god.

That's not to say I would worship that god: I would believe he exists, but my determination of whether he's worthy of worship, or even basic respect, would come based on his actions. He doesn't get a free pass just because he's stronger than me.

Why not God? Because you can't see Him? He doesn't fit your idea of a God? You know better than a GOD?!

I hope you were joking when you wrote this.

Brush-up on your astrophysics. There are many, many things uncertain in the universe, but the one thing that is certain is: "Everything in the universe [came into existence] from [infinite density]" (aka as small as it is now large)!!! Do you have any concept of that statement? The universe [was nothing]! And [came into existence]! You ask by what? I say by who.

And again, are you able to measure beyond the Planck boundary? Before the big bang? If not, I suggest you stop making declarative claims about what was beyond it. Assumptions make an ass out of you.

Are you kidding me? You have more flavours of atheism around here than Baskin & Robbins!

So then it shouldn't take you very long to find me one that has ever said "life came from nothing!" without providing an explanation of what that means.

Off you go, then.

No. God arranged it so that those who believe would stand out from the fools that believe they know His will.

Gosh, how very convincing.

Then how could you make a case against God if you don't know it all?

Do you know everything? If not, how can you make a case for god? There's nothing special about god that exempts the concept from this whole "if you don't know everything you can't make claims about anything" presuppositional bullshit.

As I have said over and over again. God is there for those would want Him. This life isn't about God serving man! He gave us life, and a choice. You choose NOT to believe. And until you actually look for Him, you won't find Him.

Belief isn't a choice.

I could tell you miracle after miracle answered by God...but you still wouldn't believe me... or anyone for that matter.

What a brilliant way to cover up for a lie: "I could tell you the truth, but you wouldn't believe me." That's just a way to deflect investigation, and to no longer justify the truth.

And to be clear, what I believe means little either, because I can be wrong too. It's what's demonstrable that matters: if you could demonstrate anything at all, then any naysaying I did would be just as irrational as the stuff you're currently doing.

But then again... I could say the same for you.

What answers have you provided to me that God doesn't exist?

The fact that the entire physical universe, all of science, everything that we can demonstrate to be true has not only failed to turn up evidence for a god, but contradicts the biblical accounts entirely not enough for you?