RE: Social Approval or Principles?
August 5, 2013 at 9:30 pm
(This post was last modified: August 5, 2013 at 9:41 pm by Koolay.)
(August 5, 2013 at 1:53 pm)genkaus Wrote: Actually, it is pretty easy. Present you so-called 'logical' argument and see me refute it.
We all own private property because we own our bodies and the actions of our body- by definition we own our body. So if someone kidnaps you, that is violating human property. You also own the actions of your body, I.e, if I build a house, and someone decides to take and destroy that house, that is a violation of my private property.
If someone says 'private property is invalid' they are using private property to communicate that message, they own their lips, and they own the sound waves their mouth produces. So it becomes logically invalid immediately as the person arguing against private property uses private property to communicate that message.
(August 5, 2013 at 1:53 pm)genkaus Wrote: Except, the state does not initiate force.
(August 5, 2013 at 2:21 pm)bennyboy Wrote: You are stating a bunch of assertions as brute fact. You have not shown that force IS rationally, morally or logically incorrect.
No, you are not correct in what you are saying.
I said the initiation of force is invalid.
(August 5, 2013 at 2:21 pm)bennyboy Wrote: You are falsely saying that you can't have exceptions to a principle. Of course you can. In principle, people can't go around sticking needles into each other. Doctors are an exception. In principle, people are not allowed to take money from each other. The government is an exception.
Again, you don't quite get it. It is wrong to stick needles into people without their consent, because that is violating NAP. When it is voluntary it is fine. Pretty simple, nobodies rights gets violated and we adhere to principle.
Give consent in paper or word form to get an injection? Perfectly right.
A group of people sticking needles into people involuntarily: Wrong
The government is not voluntary, everything it does is backed by the threat of the initiation of violence.
(August 5, 2013 at 2:21 pm)bennyboy Wrote: There's an important fact that you are persistently ignoring. The money that we pay in tax is made by and for the government. Its value comes from the government-- they guarantee its value, and control its creation and destruction to keep inflation at a steady rate. Go ahead and print some Koolay Kash of your own design. I guarantee that it will be 100% tax free, and equally free of any bartering value. That's because the value of money is DUE TO the way the government so jealously controls it.
Well, that happened with Bitcoin, many of the brokers of crypto currencies have had property seized by the U.S Government. Mt.Gox being the largest.
Businesses using Bitcoin, have had money extorted from them by governments and arrests made.
So your theory doesn't hold much ground.
The only freedom, is freedom from illusion.