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rational naturalism is impossible!
#25
RE: rational naturalism is impossible!
(October 4, 2013 at 8:15 am)Rational AKD Wrote: "P2 is false"
the only mechanism we have to determine what drives evolution is natural selection. this concept has not been disproven or improved upon as far as I know. therefore, any and all processes developed by evolution are done so by natural selection which by its own nature is survivability.

Wrong again. Natural selection does not equal survivability. Otherwise features that impair survivability wouldn't be chosen for and yet many of them are.

(October 4, 2013 at 8:15 am)Rational AKD Wrote: "survivability doesn't necessarily hinge on truth is false"
it doesn't. now i'm not making an extreme claim here. when I say it's not necessarily so, I mean it's possible and thus the 50/50 chance of it being so. but lets take for example matter. we all think objects are solid, but this may not necessarily be the case. it may have been possible for us to perceive the space between the particles of solid objects, but natural selection determines it's better for us to perceive it as solid. since such an example is conceptually possible, it is thus "not necessarily" hinged on truth.

Are you ignoring the most obvious solution or do you simply not get it?

The ability to perceive the truth does not mean the ability to perceive each and every aspect of the truth out there. To the extent that we do perceive the truth, it aids our survival.

(October 4, 2013 at 8:15 am)Rational AKD Wrote: a common objection many of you have is taking my argument to the extreme and saying things like "why would it be beneficial to survival not to see objects that are actually there?" i'm not speaking of those kinds of things. of course it's more beneficial to perceive what's actually there. but when it comes to logic and reasoning, these would be most affected because such things don't necessarily have to be true for the benefit of survival. in fact, this argument was originally developed from atheists who claimed religion came about by a process of natural selection because believing in a higher power was better for survival. the problem is, the same argument can be used against them.

On the contrary, your ability to reason and use logic greatly aid your survivability.

(October 4, 2013 at 8:15 am)Rational AKD Wrote: how do creatures with lesser cognitive functions manage to survive? our cognitive functions are not necessary for survival, they're better for survival.

And as they are better for survival, they are chosen for by natural selection.

(October 4, 2013 at 8:15 am)Rational AKD Wrote: if I drop a pen... yes, you perceive it falling. perceptions through senses aren't really that subject to this argument. they may be to an extent, but perceiving things that are actually there is a necessary ability for survival. what would be most subject to this are abstract concepts like philosophical beliefs, naturalism included which is what makes it self refuting.

The ability to abstract concepts from perceptions is the next step which improves survivability by leaps and bounds. But once we have that ability, limiting its use for survival is not necessary.
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Messages In This Thread
rational naturalism is impossible! - by Rational AKD - October 4, 2013 at 1:26 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by FallentoReason - October 4, 2013 at 1:38 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Ryantology - October 4, 2013 at 1:42 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Rational AKD - October 4, 2013 at 1:52 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Cato - October 4, 2013 at 3:05 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by genkaus - October 4, 2013 at 2:16 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by bennyboy - October 4, 2013 at 2:28 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by genkaus - October 4, 2013 at 4:14 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by FallentoReason - October 4, 2013 at 4:33 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by genkaus - October 4, 2013 at 4:59 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by FallentoReason - October 4, 2013 at 9:10 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by FallentoReason - October 4, 2013 at 2:43 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Ryantology - October 4, 2013 at 3:10 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by FallentoReason - October 4, 2013 at 3:11 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by bennyboy - October 4, 2013 at 2:45 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Esquilax - October 4, 2013 at 3:44 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Mister Agenda - October 4, 2013 at 12:06 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by max-greece - October 7, 2013 at 1:35 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by bennyboy - October 7, 2013 at 2:53 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by downbeatplumb - October 7, 2013 at 2:58 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by genkaus - October 8, 2013 at 3:22 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by bennyboy - October 9, 2013 at 9:21 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Ryantology - October 4, 2013 at 3:14 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by FallentoReason - October 4, 2013 at 3:17 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Ryantology - October 4, 2013 at 3:28 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by FallentoReason - October 4, 2013 at 3:39 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by max-greece - October 4, 2013 at 3:52 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Chas - October 4, 2013 at 5:20 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by pocaracas - October 4, 2013 at 6:27 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Rational AKD - October 4, 2013 at 8:15 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by genkaus - October 4, 2013 at 10:06 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Faith No More - October 4, 2013 at 10:28 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Rational AKD - October 4, 2013 at 11:12 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Faith No More - October 4, 2013 at 11:25 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Esquilax - October 4, 2013 at 11:27 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Rational AKD - October 4, 2013 at 11:56 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Esquilax - October 4, 2013 at 12:06 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Rational AKD - October 4, 2013 at 7:16 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by pocaracas - October 4, 2013 at 7:44 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Rational AKD - October 4, 2013 at 8:01 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by pocaracas - October 4, 2013 at 8:26 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Faith No More - October 4, 2013 at 8:06 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by genkaus - October 5, 2013 at 1:02 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Rational AKD - October 4, 2013 at 8:16 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Faith No More - October 4, 2013 at 8:32 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Rational AKD - October 4, 2013 at 8:42 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Faith No More - October 4, 2013 at 8:58 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Rational AKD - October 4, 2013 at 9:05 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Faith No More - October 4, 2013 at 9:19 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Rational AKD - October 4, 2013 at 9:25 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by bennyboy - October 4, 2013 at 9:38 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Rational AKD - October 4, 2013 at 9:49 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by bennyboy - October 4, 2013 at 11:09 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Rational AKD - October 5, 2013 at 6:23 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by bennyboy - October 5, 2013 at 7:28 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Whateverist - October 5, 2013 at 9:07 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Rational AKD - October 5, 2013 at 1:40 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by DeistPaladin - October 6, 2013 at 10:14 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Whateverist - October 6, 2013 at 11:37 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Rational AKD - October 9, 2013 at 6:44 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by DeistPaladin - October 9, 2013 at 1:49 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by downbeatplumb - October 9, 2013 at 2:01 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by DeistPaladin - October 5, 2013 at 10:30 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by genkaus - October 5, 2013 at 1:49 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Rational AKD - October 5, 2013 at 7:46 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by bennyboy - October 5, 2013 at 8:12 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by genkaus - October 6, 2013 at 1:03 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Rational AKD - October 6, 2013 at 1:19 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by genkaus - October 6, 2013 at 1:56 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Rational AKD - October 6, 2013 at 2:31 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by genkaus - October 6, 2013 at 3:23 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by DeistPaladin - October 5, 2013 at 12:25 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Esquilax - October 5, 2013 at 4:10 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Chas - October 4, 2013 at 11:42 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by bennyboy - October 4, 2013 at 11:55 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Chas - October 5, 2013 at 12:14 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by bennyboy - October 5, 2013 at 3:42 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Chas - October 5, 2013 at 7:50 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by bennyboy - October 5, 2013 at 8:34 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by DeistPaladin - October 5, 2013 at 12:01 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Whateverist - October 5, 2013 at 12:03 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by FallentoReason - October 5, 2013 at 12:15 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Whateverist - October 5, 2013 at 12:44 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by FallentoReason - October 5, 2013 at 12:59 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Simon Moon - October 5, 2013 at 9:41 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by max-greece - October 6, 2013 at 4:10 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Angrboda - October 6, 2013 at 2:16 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by KichigaiNeko - October 6, 2013 at 4:46 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by bennyboy - October 6, 2013 at 7:58 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by max-greece - October 7, 2013 at 1:31 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by DeistPaladin - October 8, 2013 at 8:24 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Rational AKD - October 9, 2013 at 5:41 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by DeistPaladin - October 9, 2013 at 12:58 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by FallentoReason - October 9, 2013 at 5:47 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Rational AKD - October 9, 2013 at 8:02 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by pocaracas - October 9, 2013 at 9:17 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Rational AKD - October 9, 2013 at 11:08 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by pocaracas - October 9, 2013 at 11:36 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Dunno - October 9, 2013 at 4:40 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Whateverist - October 25, 2013 at 9:41 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Cheerful Charlie - October 27, 2013 at 8:34 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by bennyboy - October 28, 2013 at 7:16 am
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Cheerful Charlie - October 29, 2013 at 5:23 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by Cheerful Charlie - October 29, 2013 at 7:32 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by DeistPaladin - October 29, 2013 at 8:48 pm
RE: rational naturalism is impossible! - by TheBeardedDude - November 1, 2013 at 3:05 pm

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