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In regard to the rational person's choice
#1
In regard to the rational person's choice
Hello

I learned that dismissing God stems from the fact that a rational person mustn't believe unless evidence provided. The evidence for believing in God are not compelling as many non-religious folks put it.

Okay but is it logically valid to say that God does NOT exist based on the lack of evidence? Or should we say that God could exist but believing in him is irrational without evidence?

In other words: Is the lack of evidence itself is an evidence?

Am I making sense?

If you can answer this, please help me out here.


See there is a poll here. English is my second language. If this thread is confusing let me know.
Thank you.
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#2
RE: In regard to the rational person's choice
Welcome!

You make sense, and you've hit the nail on the head.

Most atheists do not claim knowledge. There is a difference between saying "I don't believe in a god(s)" and "I believe there are no gods." The former is what most atheists say, and the latter is claiming knowledge.

Here is a chart, for clarity:
[Image: nb2mO.jpg]

Most of us claim to be agnostic atheists.

Rob will be along shortly to tell you about his blog. Tongue
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great

PM me your email address to join the Slack chat! I'll give you a taco(or five) if you join! --->There's an app and everything!<---
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#3
RE: In regard to the rational person's choice
Is it logical to say invisible pink unicorns don't exist because of lack of evidence? Or the tooth fairy? Etc....

Most atheists don't take the stance that there is no god, anyway, they just accept that there doesn't seem to be, so no reason to behave as if there were, which is not the same as claiming his non-existence. Some will, but most won't.

And don't worry, your English is fine. Smile
“Eternity is a terrible thought. I mean, where's it going to end?” 
― Tom StoppardRosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead
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#4
RE: In regard to the rational person's choice
SteelCurtain, thank you for your explanation and the informatively rich picture.

Aroura, thank you very much.

I will be waiting for Rob.

If anyone can suggest a good book on logic and god, I'll be thankful.

Thank you, all.
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#5
RE: In regard to the rational person's choice
(April 26, 2015 at 7:05 pm)Mohammed1212 Wrote: SteelCurtain, thank you for your explanation and the informatively rich picture.

Aroura, thank you very much.

I will be waiting for Rob.

If anyone can suggest a good book on logic and god, I'll be thankful.

Thank you, all.
The Miracle of Theism: Arguments For and Against the Existence of God by the late (atheist) philosopher J.L. Mackie is a great read.

So is the Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion by David Hume, which you can find included with a few other essays, such as the great Of Miracles.

The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins is a more general commentary on the bad results of bad reasoning, is enjoyable and visceral but not quite so in-depth. Darwin's Dangerous Idea and Breaking the Spell by Dan Dennett are recommended as well, especially the former.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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#6
RE: In regard to the rational person's choice
Oh thank you Nestor. This is great..

I did read Dawkin's. I think I'll add the rest to my list..

Thank you, mate.
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#7
RE: In regard to the rational person's choice
Quote:Okay but is it logically valid to say that God does NOT exist based on the lack of evidence?

Yes.


Next question.
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#8
RE: In regard to the rational person's choice
Either God is an entity, and has been observed, or an idea, which has been inferred. In the first case, what observations, exactly, could show that something/someone is the Creator of all that exists? Burning bushes? Beams of light from the sky? Sudden curing of diseases? No. In the second case, whoever has made the inference must demonstrate that the inference is correct, or at least it's just the best inference that we could make. Has anyone been able to do this? No.

It should be clear to any rational person that religious mythologies are fairy tales. They go against what we can observe for ourselves, and provide no meaningful answers to any of the mysteries of life. I know of many cases in my life where people have told far-fetched stories, and been proven false; and I know of none where they have been proven true. Why, then, should the far-fetched stories of people 1500, 2000 or 4000 years ago be accepted? Does being born before the real understanding of science, or before the mutual education of millions of scholars working together in a history of peer review, qualify someone as MORE qualified to reveal truth? No.

The most rational choice a thinking person can make is to accept his own ignorance. Mystery doesn't need placeholder solutions; instead it should provide a sense of wonder and a desire to observe and to learn as much as possible.
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#9
RE: In regard to the rational person's choice
Hey Mohammed, welcome Smile Yes, I get what you are saying.

I am here to fulfil the prophecy Big Grin

I've made a website aimed mainly at people new to atheism so I hope it will be of some use to you. It's meant to be user friendly and a gentle introduction. Feel free to check it out and please ask if you have any more questions. There are the two pages of it which deal with these issues:

http://robvalue.wix.com/atheism#!what-is-atheism/c57k

http://robvalue.wix.com/atheism#!agnosti...stic/c1xja
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.

Index of useful threads and discussions
Index of my best videos
Quickstart guide to the forum
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#10
RE: In regard to the rational person's choice
bennyboy and robvalue thank you guys very much. I do appreciate the replies..

I've been struggling with this since 2009 when I was in high school... Thank you. I'll be spending my time reading.. I like the blog..
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