(October 8, 2013 at 8:24 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: By the way, is this the best Christians can offer when it comes to proof?
That's a rhetorical question. I know the answer is "yes".
This kind of highly abstract philosophical argument with its thought experiments and spurious assumptions supported by hot air seems to be the best you'll get. Where's the hard evidence promised by the Bible?
Where's the public appearances of Yahweh (Judges 1) or the booming voices from the sky (Mark 1)? Where are the angels that interact with humans regularly throughout the Bible? Why aren't there any magical artifacts that can be submitted to scientific study (i.e. Paul's handkerchiefs in Acts) or faith healings performed under medical peer review (Mark 16:17-18)?
Read your Bible. It depicts a world full of supernatural activity. Now put down the Bible and look around. It's a natural world governed by predictable laws and best understood through science and reason.
Where did your god go? Has he grown shy and withdrawn? He used to be a hands-on deity who wrestled with Jacob, gave a public speech to Judea, showed off his loins to Ezekiel and dropped by Abraham's place for lunch. He flooded worlds, confounded people with different languages and consumed blasphemers with columns of fire.
Where did the angels go? They used to make donkeys talk, assassinate leaders like Herod Antipas and break true believers out of jail when they were persecuted. Have they also grown shy? Have they suddenly decided to respect free will now that we have mass communication, recording technology and a society more skeptical?
What happened to the demons? They used to be responsible for illness and insanity. Now these ailments have natural causes. If the Gospels and Acts are to be believed, Christians could heal by the power of their faith. Out of a billion or so Christians, can we not generate any with enough faith to cast a Cure Light Wounds spell?
"Blah blah blah blah blah, therefore Jesus". That's the best you can offer, is it?
Why doesn't God do miracles today? because God doesn't aspire to convince everyone of his existence. you may think that to be his goal but it's not. if he performed mass miracles seen by many, everyone would most definitely have to acknowledge his existence. but then that will invoke a response of fear from everyone. they could not live freely by choosing to obey and disobey God. they would be worried of provoking God's wrath at any given moment. and those who aspire to follow him will do so by their own purposes, and no one will truly follow God for love which is what he desires from us. if God were to demonstrate his power to everyone, it would only invoke fear within everyone and not instill love. creating this fear would in turn create selfishness inspiring people to save themselves instead of loving God. it would be counter productive to his goal.
PS, this isn't my best argument.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them.
-Galileo
-Galileo
