Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: December 17, 2025, 12:56 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Moral Argument for God's Existence
#3
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence
Far be it from me to dignify any of Craig's arguments with a response, but what irritates me is the way theists use these arguments without any regard for the philosophical implications.

The phrase "objective morals" means morals independent of any conscious entity's will, desires or opinions. If god exists and morality comes from him, then it is, by definition, subjective. As a matter of fact, in that case, the whole reality would be subjective and the word "objective" would lose all meaning. But once this argument is made - often in the form of Euthyphro Dilemma - they scramble for explanations like "but god is objectively morally good by his very nature" - forgetting that if morality is established as a standard independent of god then the existence of god becomes irrelevant to existence of objective morality. If they do remember that, then their position becomes even weirder. So, basically, Craig's moral argument is a complicated game of moving the goalposts with no regard for what morality actually means or what actual existence objective moral values would require.

Now, here's something I find even more irritating - a lot of atheists seem to accept that god is required for objective moral values. They attack premise 2 - question whether objective moral values do exist while professing belief in the social contract theory - while disregarding premise 1. I'd expect atheists to actually consider the premises required for objective morality to exist and use that as a basis to judge whether or not it does or could rather than simply accepting the theistic view that god is required for it.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Moral Argument for God's Existence - by MindForgedManacle - October 17, 2013 at 10:18 pm
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by FallentoReason - October 18, 2013 at 12:50 am
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by genkaus - October 18, 2013 at 1:27 am
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by FallentoReason - October 18, 2013 at 1:44 am
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by genkaus - October 18, 2013 at 2:54 am
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by max-greece - October 18, 2013 at 3:53 am
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by bennyboy - October 19, 2013 at 12:08 am
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by genkaus - October 19, 2013 at 8:59 am
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by bennyboy - October 19, 2013 at 9:13 pm
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by genkaus - October 20, 2013 at 7:28 am
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by Cato - October 19, 2013 at 12:27 am
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by bennyboy - October 20, 2013 at 8:37 am
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by genkaus - October 21, 2013 at 3:54 am
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by bennyboy - October 21, 2013 at 9:54 pm
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by genkaus - October 22, 2013 at 8:52 am
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by bennyboy - October 22, 2013 at 12:01 pm
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by Zazzy - October 22, 2013 at 1:06 pm
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by bennyboy - October 22, 2013 at 9:03 pm
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by genkaus - October 22, 2013 at 11:48 pm
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by bennyboy - October 23, 2013 at 11:25 pm
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by genkaus - October 24, 2013 at 7:23 am
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by bennyboy - October 24, 2013 at 6:42 pm
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by genkaus - October 24, 2013 at 7:21 pm
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by bennyboy - October 24, 2013 at 8:38 pm
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by genkaus - October 24, 2013 at 8:53 pm
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by bennyboy - October 24, 2013 at 8:59 pm
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by genkaus - October 24, 2013 at 9:34 pm
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by bennyboy - October 24, 2013 at 10:41 pm
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by genkaus - October 25, 2013 at 3:52 am
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by bennyboy - October 25, 2013 at 5:32 am
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by genkaus - October 25, 2013 at 6:50 am
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by bennyboy - October 25, 2013 at 9:47 am
RE: Moral Argument for God's Existence - by genkaus - October 22, 2013 at 5:55 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  The modal ontological argument for God Disagreeable 29 4787 August 10, 2024 at 8:57 pm
Last Post: CuriosityBob
  Proving the Existence of a First Cause Muhammad Rizvi 3 1571 June 23, 2023 at 5:50 pm
Last Post: awty
  Maximizing Moral Virtue h311inac311 191 34056 December 17, 2022 at 10:36 pm
Last Post: Objectivist
  As a nonreligious person, where do you get your moral guidance? Gentle_Idiot 79 15713 November 26, 2022 at 10:27 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  The existence of God smithd 314 51901 November 23, 2022 at 10:44 pm
Last Post: LinuxGal
  Moral justification for the execution of criminals of war? Macoleco 184 27257 August 19, 2022 at 7:03 pm
Last Post: bennyboy
  On theism, why do humans have moral duties even if there are objective moral values? Pnerd 37 8034 May 24, 2022 at 11:49 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Veridican Argument for the Existence of God The Veridican 14 4091 January 16, 2022 at 4:48 pm
Last Post: brewer
  Can we trust our Moral Intuitions? vulcanlogician 72 13288 November 7, 2021 at 1:25 pm
Last Post: Alan V
  Any Moral Relativists in the House? vulcanlogician 72 12493 June 21, 2021 at 9:09 am
Last Post: vulcanlogician



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)