RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe
November 8, 2013 at 11:17 am
(This post was last modified: November 8, 2013 at 11:25 am by The Reality Salesman01.)
(November 8, 2013 at 10:52 am)Raeven Wrote: Texas Sailor, you have so perfectly summarized exactly what I find frightening and baffling about people who believe. I think it's a mistake to assume they just pretend to believe. In many cases, they really do believe -- in spite of the contradictions, the lack of logic, the shocking inconsistencies, the so demonstrably mythical aspects of their book.
I have often -- gently and with as little derision as I can manage -- pointed out the most basic of the absurdities you mention in my quest to understand the nature of belief in Christian believers (I don't have contact with many other kinds, else I'd question those, too). I am very familiar with what you also have experienced: The defensiveness; the throwing up of hands and saying they don't want to talk about it, it's just what they believe; the deflections, etc. My step mom is a favorite example. She is so worried about my atheism, which is a lifelong fact, so her concern has only recently arisen since she has returned to her Catholic upbringing and its practices. But when I question her pointedly about her beliefs, she really can't answer anything about it in a way that makes sense. Yet I have no doubt of her intense belief, which gives rise to many of the actions she takes in a day -- praying, attending her church, giving money to said church, etc. It took about 5 minutes in an actual discussion for me to demonstrate the whimsy of her beliefs, and she readily admitted it. But... she is comforted in her delusion, and so on this point we simply must agree to disagree. And there is no way I can understand it.
I have a friend whose father is a pastor in a Seventh Day Adventist church. He was raised in that faith and was made to become a pastor, too. He believes none of it, but because of his family ties, he doesn't dare share his true views within his church circle. It is a shunning religion. His wife is his only confidante besides me and the ragged little crew of atheists I hang with. He comes to us like a man dying of thirst. He recently shifted jobs and learned his new bosses are also very religious, so he is subjected to religiosity now in every part of his life except the few moments he manages to steal with our group. I feel so sad for him. Living in such a way... THAT must be a true version of hell.
I'm glad my thoughts dovetail your own. It is crazy. But I guess sometimes you can't see the forest from the trees. There's a crazy notion going around that all beliefs stand on equal footing. A simple example of slavery being a belief quickly make one shift gears in a different direction. Ultimately, people will dwindle such a regard to beliefs as warranting respect, so long as they don't hurt anyone else. Of course, there are countless examples of religion not qualifying there either.
The truth is, faith is like a virus. There's no one cure for everyone. It's certainly frustrating to be thrown in the company of a society that perpetuates faith as a virtue instead of what it really is-pretending to know things one doesn't and can't know. Its easy to feel like you're locked in an insane asylum forced to "make nice". But, when the warden of the institution is himself insane, who does one plea to for the enforcement of reason?
I agree that not all people are pretending, in fact, it appears I missed my mark as that was kinda one of the points I was trying to make. I do, however, think that many of them do pretend to believe (or pretend to be Christian). They may not be aware of it, but in all reality, they really don't know what it means to be a true Christian, and true Christians around the globe are chomping at the bit to be the one to point it out. Nevertheless, they are presenting themselves as such. It's a front. Whether they're made aware of it or not is something different entirely!
(November 8, 2013 at 11:09 am)ronedee Wrote: Our relationship is one on one with our Savior. All else is suspect.
I'd like to focus on this one.
Perhaps you wouldn't mind answering a few questions so that I may have a full understanding of your belief without the risk of innacurately grouping you into a stereotype. Fair?
You believe that you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, and you believe he speaks to you, no?
You believe him to be the son of God, and the one true path to salvation?
Your allegence to Christ and your compliance to His Father's will surpasses all worldy committment?
