(November 9, 2013 at 6:30 pm)Texas Sailor Wrote: These two statements contradict each other. Surely you see that. On one hand you would question God if he told you to do something that would be in conflict with your own personal judgment.
On the other hand you say that your faith in God is unwavering.
These two are incompatible.
If what you really believe the first thing you've said. I would be quite surprised if you had any qualms with an Atheist having a lack of faith. I personally find the God of The Bible to be immoral. My moral intuition tells me that the God character of The Bible is anything but something I would blindly devote my life to. I need not look any further than the texts.
The Ten Commandments which you cited as a defense to God are written two pages prior to a scripture that endorses the beating of human slaves, so long as they are your own, and so long as they get up after a day or two.
How could God be good, and yet not address such a cruel practice?
The God character in The Bible saw fit to list:
Don't say "God damn it."
Don't worship different gods.
Don't make idols of different gods.
Don't work on Sundays.
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Don't be jealous. (I really don't understand this one, since the two of these rules depict God as jealous Himself)
Don't have slaves didn't make the cut, and instead, he just issues out some guidelines for the people that have slaves, and endorses beating them near death, but not all the way.
If you are going to defend the 7th commandment, don't turn a blind eye to the text written two pages later. I want to believe you are better than that. You have to be.
Well, my judgement is based on God's commandment. And Him ordering something to the contrary is out of character. So, I would deem such order as a message from a false god.
And as far as the OT in general goes... I'm a skeptic to things contrary to God's commandments. I mean, even atheists would agree on the merits of seven of those commandments! All else is suspect, at least for the weird stuff!
I'm a firm believer in the Gospel. That is my guide to life. And to God's motives.
(November 9, 2013 at 6:30 pm)Texas Sailor Wrote: I think you are a smart person, and probably have a good heart. But something is very wrong if you are unable to recognize that the good feeling you get from believing in a God, does not come from God, but the idea of God. The idea that something so great loves you and takes a special interest in your life. The idea that this life is not the end, that there's more than this. And when it's over, you will have an eternity in paradise as a reward for your faith.
When you consider your answer to my question in a minute, I want you to be honest with yourself when you consider how you know...I mean really know, that any of that is true.
Consider your reasons for believing in God and sincerely challenge them. Is there a natural explanation? Could you have been mistaken? As critical as I'm being of your posts, you have to be 10 times more critical of your own thoughts. Telling me something you really don't know to be true is just verbal behavior, listen to your gut when you challenge the things you've attributed to God. That little twinge of doubt, is your intuition letting you know that you may have been led to believe something that's probably not true.
Take into account what I said about the idea of God being comforting to you.
Now consider all of the followers of faiths that are making incompatible claims about a different exclusive God, and attributing the exact things you are to It right now. Literally millions of people, divided over hundreds of Gods, making incompatible claims.
The fact that this doesn't cause you to take pause concerns me.
You made it clear that you would have to question God if you felt that He was asking you to do something immoral.
That's a good sign, and it shows that you would be completely capable of listening to morals even when they are challenged by God.
The next question I have for you, and I don't ask it lightly...
How do you know you are not delusional?
Ask yourself before you answer:
Do delusional people not realize that they are delusional?
Isn't that what it means to be delusional?
Is it possible that all of the people I mentioned, are they all lying about their divine experiences? Or are they delusional?
Is it possible to have a belief that is so comforting that you ignore all the obvious signs that point to it being a delusion?
Why do terms such as "self deception" and "misconception" exist? Are you not vulnerable to being affected by these things, while all Atheists and other Theists in the world are?
How do you know you're not delusional? Can you make a case to a third party that you are not?
Read the definition of delusion, and I invite you to really reflect on it before answering the question I posed for you to answer. The others are for you to chew on...
de·lu·sion
a persistent false psychotic belief regarding the self or persons or objects outside the self that is maintained despite indisputable evidence to the contrary; also : the abnormal state marked by such beliefs
P.S.
I was brought up in an Texas. My family were all devout Christians in a Southern Baptist Church. I've been baptized twice. I know what you think. I got out, and it's great! I just couldn't see the forest from the trees.
Be honest with yourself, and really soak in the things I said above. I think you're capable of recognizing it. Again, you don't have to answer my questions, but I sure would be interested in reading your response.
LOL! If you don't mind me saying.. I was in tears laughing at the later part of your post!
What stood out in the definition of "delusion", which you so thoughtfully provided.... is: "despite indisputable evidence".
The short answer to your question would be, I have found no evidence to prove my faith wrong! Quite the contrary. At every turn of events my faith has increased!
You, or the others may say it's luck, coincidence, or willful thinking. I call it the "Love of God".
Has life been a bowl of cherries? No, I'm not a millionaire who wins the lottery through divine intervention? Yes, friends and relatives, and even a child of mine gone way before their time? Also, coming close to death myself. Yes, just like everyone else in this world I've had my share.
But, my unwavering faith in God has rewarded me through all the dark times. And, Yes! Every so often God gives me a little wink, and a small sign that I'm going in the right direction. Really though, I don't need a sign. I'm not the type to run down to the local apparition of some saint, or other religious icon. I know some people need that kind of thing. But, I know that if He isn't in me already, a sighting won't help!
Most of all, I feel God's love for me in my life. And gradually over time, I've lost every ounce of fear for men, and the folly they create. I know God is in control. In my life and in the world.
Thanks again for the stimulating conversations! Ron
Quis ut Deus?
