Believing Vs Claiming to Believe

[Godscreated]

you were leading to a deceptive end, your only care is to deconvert.

The end I expect can easily be changed by the answers provided for my questions. I anticipate the conversation will ultimately arrive at its usual point, yes. However, this doesn’t mean that it necessarily has to.

There is a possibility it could go differently, that is if we started giving dishonest answers and I believe you would catch that and point it out. So the more likely happening would be one you were angling for.

Does God approve of something because it is Holy?

-or

Is something Holy because God approves it

If I remember I told you it was neither.

Should I ask the question that’s being begged, or do I just assume you don’t know?

You ask whatever you like and assume whatever tickles your fancy, I'm not playing your game. I gave you the correct answer to your above questions.

Surely someone that runs around here proclaiming to have a firm grasp on God's will knows how to determine what it is that makes ones actions holy or otherwise...

I know exactly what God considers holy, the scriptures describe it well.

So something is holy if it is in the scriptures? If this is true, then any interpretation of the scripture can be equally viewed as holy. But, I don’t think this is true, and I don’t think you do either.
Clearly you know of some standard by which the scriptures are determined to be holy. The floor is yours. I don’t feel that I’m being at all threatening here, I’m just asking questions.

I did not say that, you should read what I said and not what you want said. Did I say the scriptures were holy, I do not think so, they do teach holiness.

I'm not at all sure what being in person has to do with being able to provide a legitimate answer to a straight forward question.

Looking someone in the eyes is the easiest way to determine their intentions, yes I could answer the question, and yes it's straight forward, it's your intention that's not straight forward as you have proven.

My intentions are evident in my questions. My goal is to examine what you say you know to be true. If it is true, then I will adopt it. I will have no choice. I will be incapable of avoiding it.
If your words are convincing enough, I will believe you. That's how it works. If your message is not as convincing as you had hoped, try again. Try a different tact. The things you say have the potential of reinforcing my lack of belief, but it could also change it entirely, or even replace it.
If you think that not looking in my eyes is somehow a barrier in properly conveying your message, then I am sure I don’t understand, as that is only a requirement should your plan be to hypnotize me, and I doubt very seriously that’s what you aim to do.

Nice speech, but no wee-oh. Your intentions became clear with Ronedee, I actually did not think that was what you were up to at first. You would deny the truth no matter what, you've already done that in the past, you have given no indication you've had a change of heart.

I said nothing about looking into your eyes to convey a message, again you are reading what you want to hear not what I stated. I said to look into one's eyes can help determine one's intentions.

You assume Christians have not considered the things you did to lose their faith, you assume if we had we would no longer be Christians

I assume from things observed. It is not a blind assumption. If you think I am wrong, provide me with answers that show me different. If you choose not to, then you are not in a position to criticize my assumption. Wouldn't you agree?

No, I would not, like I said you believe if Christians considered the things you did that lead you away, it would do the same for us, you proved that with Ronedee. You do not consider that we may be stronger than you were, Paul writes that the weak will fall away, Jesus said the same thing in parables. You were in church didn't you study the scriptures and see those things, I did.

Christians here have gone deeper into questioning God than you ever did, ever consider that's why we are not fooled by the ridiculousness of what atheist have to say

That may be, I don't deny it. If you know it to be true, then share with me your answers. I know from my own experience what answers were available when I sought God, and it is this experience combined with the testimony shared by people such as yourself that empower my assumptions.

My testimony was not part of your assumption, you left Christianity before we started to have discussions.
In the above I'm not referring to searching for God, I'm referring to after we became Christians. The reason I know they did, because of the way they deal with questions, the Holy Spirit reveals more than you can imagine.

Did I consider that your questioning of God gave you answers that make my question appear ridiculous?

It's not your questions, it's your intent and the way other atheist ask or state what scriptures mean and ect.

I considered my personal experience as a Christian, and retrospectively I assess the psychological barriers that prevented me from truly questioning God without fear or artificial guilt. I remember the state of denial which instilled a sense of artificial confidence about my faith in the face of adversity.

This artificial confidence shielded me from the reality of my beliefs. For me, looking back, “Faith” was pretending to know things I did not know.

"Faith" is the first step to knowledge of God, why do you think there was so much emphasis put on faith in the NT. Why did you assume so much, wouldn't it have been easier to study scriptures than skate along pretending. I ask questions all the time, was I taught to, not really I wanted to know why, it's my nature. I can no more abandon asking questions than I can being alive. This is why I ind it funny when atheist say I do not question, I've more questions than I can receive answers for in a life time.

By pretending to have such answers for so long, I started to actually believe it. This sense of entitlement to answers would cause me to dismiss challenges such as these as being too “ridiculous” to warrant my attention.


In short, given your responses, or lack there of in some cases, you fit into my assumption perfectly. If you say that I am wrong, tell me why, and explain yourself.

I think I answered in my above statement, you should have studied scripture, gone after the answers with God, not without Him.

I don’t doubt that you’ve questioned God, but I suspect you do so in much the same way that I did, which is to say, blinded by confirmation bias and a false sense of enlightenment. So far, that's the impression your responses have left on me.

Maybe you did, but I have my doubts, God lead me to the answers. Conformation bias and false sense of enlightenment had nothing to do with it. I wanted to know, I wanted to know what I did not know or understand and this was after I became a Christian, long after and it continues even today, as I've already said. I will not quit questioning God until I die, I want to know and understand all I can before I meet Him face to face.

could it be true we've already worked through much with God. That's what you need to consider.

It is that very thing I consider when I offer you the opportunity to share what you’ve claimed to discover. I have said over and over again that I do not deny this a possibility, however, my doubt of it actually being true increases at every failed attempt to establish such truth.

Could it be the only failed attempt you see are what you want to see, instead of the truth that's presented to you by others. I see you doing this by the way you work around answers to get Christians to consider your false assumptions.

You say you have the answers that you’ve discovered through God.
I do not, so I ask the questions in hopes of examining your claims.
If you don’t answer them, it is unclear why you would criticize my skepticism toward your claim.

You will always be skeptical of what I claim, why, because I see you're not serious about finding God when you continually try to get others to see why we should doubt what we believe. It doesn't work that way, if you're interested in knowing God you would listen and then search the scriptures to test us, you would do it with the hope God would lead you to the truth.

I do not take offense at challenges to my knowledge of God, I do take offense when others think I practice religion or when insults are hurled because I believe differently than atheist do

Retrace any honest exchange you and I have had, specifically, this one. I am giving you the floor, and asking you direct questions that you have claimed to have answers to. The choice to answer them is obviously yours, but be aware of the reasons you provide should you ignore them. If I’ve provided you with an unobstructed opportunity for you to present your case, and you decline, then it is you that has failed to present information, and not an unwillingness on my part to listen

You want to know what is holy, don't you think that there are basic questions that are more important? Don't you think that looking for truth in the scriptures is more important than taking a verse out of context and trying to disprove God's existence. You see when one takes this approach one is not seeking truth through God. I believe one is looking to confirm a non belief to suit there own purposes. If one is not honest with one's self then why would one expect to learn anything and why should one expect God to just jump off the pages of scripture and say here I am in an audible voice when scriptures teach "faith".

GC