Firstly, let me introduce where this kind of questioning comes from, because it does sound crazy as Texas Sailor pointed out. These questions and issues comes out of a research program in Ghent University, Belgium I ran across a couple of years back. This program has been running a research program 'Comparative Science of cultures' for the past twenty years, but in recent years, they're becoming more public with their results. One of the striking things, is the scientific robustness of their theories, which is very rare in the social sciences. It doesn't just question this or that, the research criticizes the entire paradigm of social sciences, religious studies and cultural studies.
Very simply put, the social sciences of today and yesterday are not producing any knowledge about human beings or cultures or religions, but are simply reproducing Christian theology in a secular scientific garb. Anyways, I digress.
http://www.cultuurwetenschap.be/
This presupposes that they had religion and theology in the first place. Which is what the question is about. Because if pagan Greece and Rome did not have religion, then what they were discussing about teaching in schools could not have been 'theology' or 'religious information'.
And before someone tells me about the Greek 'gods' Zeus, Thor, Athena, and the stories about them, the temples, the rituals etc etc, I'm very well aware of all that, but what makes all those practices into religion.
What is Religion anyways?
This is where the discussion usually goes into definitions of religion. Religion is a 'belief in supernatural beings' , 'belief in invisible agents, transcendental etc etc', there are millions more. But that just muddles the issue and makes it vaguer, because the Greek practices of antiquity, and the 'Hindu' and 'Buddhist' and 'Taoist' practices of today have little to do with belief. For Indians, Chinese and Ancient Greeks, the main reason for continuing a practice is because it is a tradition, an ancestral practice that they are continuing and passing on to their children. They didn't write nor did they require theological tracts justifying their practices with belief. Belief that this or that 'god' exists is irrelevant to continuing a tradition.
and minor point: they didn't see their "gods" (another Christian theological concept) as supernatural agents.
and more importantly, we have to remember that the term 'Religion' itself was born out of Christian theology. and this brings us right back to the title of the thread. If 'Religion', 'God', 'gods', 'theism' are all Christian theological concepts, then what is Atheism?
You hit upon a very important point, Texas Sailor. Thank you for bringing this up. Yes, Christianity did indeed absorb and incorporate lots and lots of Greek Philosophy into their theological framework. But they did this by distorting and transforming Greek philosophy and 'Christianizing' the contributions of Greek philosophy to the point where it had nothing to do with original. And like you said, Augustine discarded what couldn't be absorbed and 'Christianized'. And even modern scholars in the West who study Greek philosophy are not really studying Greek philosophy at all. They are reading Christianized versions of Greek philosophy.
Very simply put, the social sciences of today and yesterday are not producing any knowledge about human beings or cultures or religions, but are simply reproducing Christian theology in a secular scientific garb. Anyways, I digress.
http://www.cultuurwetenschap.be/
(November 12, 2013 at 1:04 pm)Texas Sailor Wrote: I think I see what you're saying, but I don't think it's accurate.
If you read the works of Plato, their filled with references to scripture and scrolls. They had many practices and beliefs regarding what pleased their gods.
Many of their discussions about government focused on the ethical duties, if any, society had with regards to whether or not their theological and religious information should be taught in schools or should influence the government in any way. Read The Republic (400 bc) for extensive examples of this.
This presupposes that they had religion and theology in the first place. Which is what the question is about. Because if pagan Greece and Rome did not have religion, then what they were discussing about teaching in schools could not have been 'theology' or 'religious information'.
And before someone tells me about the Greek 'gods' Zeus, Thor, Athena, and the stories about them, the temples, the rituals etc etc, I'm very well aware of all that, but what makes all those practices into religion.
What is Religion anyways?
This is where the discussion usually goes into definitions of religion. Religion is a 'belief in supernatural beings' , 'belief in invisible agents, transcendental etc etc', there are millions more. But that just muddles the issue and makes it vaguer, because the Greek practices of antiquity, and the 'Hindu' and 'Buddhist' and 'Taoist' practices of today have little to do with belief. For Indians, Chinese and Ancient Greeks, the main reason for continuing a practice is because it is a tradition, an ancestral practice that they are continuing and passing on to their children. They didn't write nor did they require theological tracts justifying their practices with belief. Belief that this or that 'god' exists is irrelevant to continuing a tradition.
and minor point: they didn't see their "gods" (another Christian theological concept) as supernatural agents.
and more importantly, we have to remember that the term 'Religion' itself was born out of Christian theology. and this brings us right back to the title of the thread. If 'Religion', 'God', 'gods', 'theism' are all Christian theological concepts, then what is Atheism?
(November 12, 2013 at 1:04 pm)Texas Sailor Wrote: Additionally, when St Augustine got his hands on platonic philosophy, he began weaving it into the fabric of Christianity. The parts he felt supported Christianity (dualism for example) he kept and incorporated, the stuff he felt was incompatible or unnecessary, he left out.
You hit upon a very important point, Texas Sailor. Thank you for bringing this up. Yes, Christianity did indeed absorb and incorporate lots and lots of Greek Philosophy into their theological framework. But they did this by distorting and transforming Greek philosophy and 'Christianizing' the contributions of Greek philosophy to the point where it had nothing to do with original. And like you said, Augustine discarded what couldn't be absorbed and 'Christianized'. And even modern scholars in the West who study Greek philosophy are not really studying Greek philosophy at all. They are reading Christianized versions of Greek philosophy.
