Believing Vs Claiming to Believe

[Godscreated]

You would deny the truth no matter what, you've already done that in the past

Deny truth? You accuse me of this with no example?

The example is your ditching Christianity. You may not see Christianity as truth, however I do and you are asking for my thoughts, right.

I have told you that if you present truth I will not be able to deny it. Is 2 and 2 four? Would I be a fool to deny it? If I did, would it be ever so easy for you to show how I am wrong? Give me an example of the truth you claim I've denied, as that is the worst thing I could do.

Jesus tells us that people will deny the truth when it's presented to them in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, Luke 16:19-31. Salvation is the truth you have denied, isn't this what we have been referring to. Scripture says you're a fool for denying this truth.

Paul writes that the weak will fall away, Jesus said the same thing in parables. You were in church didn't you study the scriptures and see those things, I did.

I think this is the first genuine attempt you’ve made to really explain your resistance to my questions. I appreciate it.
You believe it is weak to fall away from one’s belief because it says so in The Bible.

Not just any belief, we're talking about Christianity and I do believe what Paul says.

You have stated that you question God and this questioning has lead you to an affirmation of things you already believed were true.

No, I questioned God about things I did not understand, I trusted Him to reveal the truth, so I patiently waited. Why would anyone question about something they already know as true?

This scripture suggests that there is something inherently weak about a person if their questioning that seeks answers not yet found, yet leads to doubt VS questioning that seeks answers and finds affirmation?
This suggests that the affirmed conclusion derived from the questioning is the stronger conclusion. This is a claim that must easily be justified with reasons that would support the stronger of the two conclusions. You seem to endorse this opinion by Paul, give me your reasons that make an affirming conclusion stronger than one that leads to doubt.

One asking a question hopes for positive results, doubt in my book would be a negative. Do not misunderstand, I'm not saying a negative answer is a bad thing, it could very well confirm a positive result, answers of no come from God all the time. My suggestion to anyone that has questions for God, do not ask a question that can be answered with a yes or no, ask why.

My testimony was not part of your assumption, you left Christianity before we started to have discussions.
In the above I'm not referring to searching for God, I'm referring to after we became Christians. The reason I know they did, because of the way they deal with questions, the Holy Spirit reveals more than you can imagine.

The way you answer questions is very similar to how they answer questions. The way they answer questions is the way my mother answers questions. The way my mother answers questions is the way I used to answer them. There is nothing foreign about the answers that are provided to questions that seek answers. When a Christian asks a question in church, they are seeking an answer that reaffirms what already gives them comfort to believe.

I don't and many I've taught haven't, and others I've known have not, we have asked questions to dispel what is uncomfortable or what does not seem to fit with God. These are the questions that God answers with more than yes or no. We believe God is right in all He has done, yet when we find something that seems to be, let's say less than godly, we search out why and asking God directly is the best way.

I am genuinely open to hearing something you have to say that may cause me to form a belief and agree with you. Why am I not asking Atheists questions about Holiness and Faith? I would only be seeking affirmation. I'm asking somebody that may present something new that has a potential to being incompatible with what I previously thought, and I am willing to accept that answer through honest self reflection if it is true.

The only thing I know to tell you is to be open to God and ask those questions that seem impossible to answer, if that's the type of questions you have. God wants your questions and to fear retribution from God is entirely and completely silly. You do know that it will take serious Bible study with the openness and honesty with yourself, in essence you will need to start over. As I pointed out I did not look for answer to affirm what I already believe, I looked for the truth no matter what God had to say. I wanted and want answers that relieve what makes me uncomfortable with God and Christianity.

If somebody told me at 17 that they were having a crisis with faith, I would tell them to pray. I would tell them to remember to put Christ first in everything you do. I would tell them that God will tell them what they needed to hear when they were ready to listen. This is very much what you say here. Go to a Christian forum, you'll find threads dedicated to that very thing, filled with similar stereotypical resonses. If one wants to believe that they have the answers, very much like I once insisted that I did, they will only consider the ones that reinforce that belief. There is nothing comforting about professing that I don't know. What motive would I have for rejecting things that are so clearly true to perpetuate a life of insisted ignorance? Everything you say, I am listening to. But keep in mind, you may not be the first one to tell me what you have to say, and I may not have found it convincing from them either because I too may have said it to someone else at a different time.

Those are real good ways to gain further knowledge of God but, not the only way. There can be different ways to get answers from God, I found mine because I already trusted God and knew He is real, and as I said I waited patiently for the answer while continuing to study His word. I wasn't trying to reaffirm something I already knew, I was looking for answers to things I did not understand, I searched for truth. I've always found it up till this time, sometimes it's taken years, but I do not easily abandon something I truly believe.

If you find your words have no impact, consider taking a new approach. If it is truth, like 2+2 is 4, than this truth can be conveyed with the right words.

Those right words need to come from God, He has the answers. I do not express my thoughts through written words very well, could be why I like the one on one, face to face. You do understand that if you reject what I have said it's not me you have rejected, right?

"Faith" is the first step to knowledge of God,

Thank you again, as this is another attempt to defend a clear position. You have stated that you use “faith” as an epistemology. Now, we have something we can talk about.

I'm not trying to defend my position, I do not need to, why do you believe I'm trying to defend what God has given me, to me it makes no sense.
I said that faith is the beginning of verified knowledge, faith in Christ brings one to salvation, then the rest is attained by caring to see the truth of and about God. Please do not make the mistaken belief that I stopped at faith, though faith is always a part of Christian life, it's not by any means all.

I will end my thoughts with this final response to “faith”.
It would be easy for me to tell you what “faith” means. But my definition doesn’t matter. If I am to be sincere in giving you an honest opportunity to explain your position, then it is your definition of “faith” as an epistemology that I will engage in discussion. So very shortly, if you wish to continue, give me your definition of the word.

Belief without sight, either physically, mentally or otherwise, it is a beginning to belief and belief leads to knowledge. Faith is the first step in a process to knowledge of God.

GC

PS- God says, "be Holy as I am Holy." This is the answer that will come if you decide to return to Christ, the understanding will come later, as you use to say, when you're ready to hear.