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Believing Vs Claiming to Believe
#58
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe
(November 15, 2013 at 12:35 pm)Texas Sailor Wrote:
(November 14, 2013 at 5:47 pm)Godschild Wrote: Verified by you! Does it matter if it is verifiable by anyone else, as long as you know it's true. Others on this site portray me as something I'm not, I know that I'm not like they say and as long as God and I know this it matters not, verifiable by God and myself, all that matters.

I think that I’ve figured it out. You don’t know the difference between objective and subjective beliefs. You think that God exists in the way that you may have a preferred flavor of ice cream. True, chocolate may be the best flavor to you, and it doesn’t matter if anyone agrees because its true only within your own personal experience of what ice cream tastes like.
God is an objective claim. He either exists, or he doesn’t.
If he exists outside of your mind, it should be verifiable by me, or anyone else that doesn’t know what you claim to know. But you’ve made it abundantly clear that God exists in your mind, “soul”…etc. If it’s true that you think he exists, then it is apparent that he exists only in your mind as a product of your own personal experience. God being real to you is no different than what you think is real pertaining to other subjective terms of truth such as taste, music, art…etc.
Being convinced that it’s objectively true while describing it as perfectly subjective brings us back to my question. I hope you try and answer it honestly this time…

I answered it honestly, again it is you that must verify God is real. I do not make the claim God is real, He does and I agree with what He claims. Why do I believe His claim, because He has proven Himself to me, why, because I desired to know and trusted. My faith, belief and knowledge or what ever you want to imagine it to be is absolutely objective, just because I take Him at His word and find Him in a personal relationship doesn't mean it's subjective. I'm beginning to see your problem, you never had a personal relationship with God and because you failed to do so no one else is allowed to, right. You do know what that's called right, jea....., right.

(November 14, 2013 at 5:47 pm)Godschild Wrote: I'm as sane as most and more than some on this site…

TS Wrote:How do you know that you aren’t delusional?
Do delusional people think they are sane? Are they not aware that they are delusional?
I asked how you could know whether or not you were delusional. You’re response was that you are sane. That’s the same as saying , “I know I’m not delusional, because I’m not delusional.”
How do you know you are not delusional? Try to answer this question honestly. This shouldn’t be that hard of a question for you to answer.

Now you are calling me a liar, you are taking this conversation down to unacceptable levels, if my word is not good enough then why have you asked me to explain things to you I know about God. I believe, no I know your only intention is to run down what I know, your jealousy is beginning to tear down your honesty, if you had any to begin with. You are losing your trust with me in a hurry and if that's what you want by continuing to go down this road fine but, do not expect me to play your little game to satisfy your jealousy.

GC

(November 14, 2013 at 8:48 pm)Rationalman Wrote: Why do theists have so much trouble with this simply concept. It has been explained to you many times GC: The burden of proof.
You are making the claim that a god exists. We are simply stating we don't believe you. We are not claiming he does not exist, we have no claim.

If you follow your own logic here, you must believe in bigfoot and the lochness monster too. In fact, anything that hasn't been disproved. You find yourself in the ridiculous situation of believing every claim unless it is proven wrong. Unless of course you are a gigantic hypocrite and only apply this kind of thinking to your god.
So which is it? You believe every claim unless proven wrong, or you are a hypocrite.

Here's a good example for you:
Me: I have a real unicorn living in my shed

You: No you don't

Me: You can't prove that I don't

You: OK, I believe you, you must really have a real unicorn in your shed!

If you can't see how ridiculous that is, I worry for the future of the human race

TS Wrote:He doesn't understand. Any ability he could use to face this topic critically has been aimed and fixed in a different direction. It's unlikely that he even has the capacity to potentially comprehend these concepts.

Its almost as if his critical thinking skills, while dull, only attacks things with a heat signature, and in his mind, God is wearing a suit that makes him invisible on the infrared. Something will have to happen in order to rattle his cage and get the intellectual juices flowing.

My intelligence is just fine and my relationship with God is getting better daily, thanks to people like you and yours. Sorry you think I have to live by your silly concepts and it's pitiful that you do, God's given me the free will to choose and you have admitted so in the above statement you made, thanks for that conformation.

GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by The Reality Salesman - November 8, 2013 at 10:24 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Raeven - November 8, 2013 at 10:52 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by ronedee - November 8, 2013 at 12:45 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by ronedee - November 8, 2013 at 1:31 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by ronedee - November 8, 2013 at 1:59 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by ronedee - November 8, 2013 at 4:12 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by freedomfromforum - November 8, 2013 at 4:34 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by ronedee - November 9, 2013 at 3:10 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by freedomfromforum - November 9, 2013 at 3:29 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by ronedee - November 9, 2013 at 10:23 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Esquilax - November 9, 2013 at 1:43 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by ronedee - November 9, 2013 at 4:00 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by freedomfromforum - November 9, 2013 at 5:45 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by ronedee - November 9, 2013 at 6:03 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Brakeman - November 10, 2013 at 10:24 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by ronedee - November 13, 2013 at 11:27 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Bad Wolf - November 13, 2013 at 11:31 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Brakeman - November 13, 2013 at 7:06 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by ronedee - November 8, 2013 at 11:09 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Ben Davis - November 8, 2013 at 12:02 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Raeven - November 8, 2013 at 11:33 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Minimalist - November 8, 2013 at 11:41 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Fruity - November 8, 2013 at 11:45 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by ronedee - November 9, 2013 at 10:42 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Whateverist - November 10, 2013 at 10:50 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Godschild - November 11, 2013 at 7:50 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Godschild - November 12, 2013 at 4:53 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Godschild - November 13, 2013 at 7:00 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by The Reality Salesman - November 13, 2013 at 10:56 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Godschild - November 14, 2013 at 1:40 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by The Reality Salesman - November 14, 2013 at 10:08 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Godschild - November 14, 2013 at 5:47 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Bad Wolf - November 14, 2013 at 8:48 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Godschild - November 15, 2013 at 2:02 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by LostLocke - November 15, 2013 at 2:17 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Bad Wolf - November 15, 2013 at 2:46 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Godschild - November 16, 2013 at 5:18 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Esquilax - November 16, 2013 at 6:11 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Godschild - November 16, 2013 at 6:23 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Esquilax - November 16, 2013 at 6:30 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Bad Wolf - November 16, 2013 at 8:50 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Godschild - November 17, 2013 at 6:29 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Bad Wolf - November 17, 2013 at 6:43 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Godschild - November 17, 2013 at 7:37 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Bad Wolf - November 17, 2013 at 7:49 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Godschild - November 18, 2013 at 2:37 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Esquilax - November 18, 2013 at 2:49 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Bad Wolf - November 18, 2013 at 3:49 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Bob Kelso - November 16, 2013 at 10:47 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Godschild - November 17, 2013 at 7:17 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Bad Wolf - November 17, 2013 at 7:26 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Godschild - November 17, 2013 at 7:42 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Bob Kelso - November 17, 2013 at 9:35 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Godschild - November 18, 2013 at 3:31 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Esquilax - November 18, 2013 at 4:04 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Godschild - November 18, 2013 at 4:31 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Bad Wolf - November 18, 2013 at 6:16 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Godschild - November 18, 2013 at 8:51 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Bob Kelso - November 18, 2013 at 1:30 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Godschild - November 18, 2013 at 7:38 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Bob Kelso - November 18, 2013 at 9:15 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Godschild - November 19, 2013 at 1:07 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Brakeman - November 18, 2013 at 9:32 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Brakeman - November 16, 2013 at 1:28 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by The Reality Salesman - November 15, 2013 at 12:35 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Godschild - November 15, 2013 at 3:03 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Esquilax - November 12, 2013 at 9:28 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Doubting Thomas - November 13, 2013 at 11:57 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Bad Wolf - November 13, 2013 at 12:10 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by ronedee - November 13, 2013 at 1:48 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Bad Wolf - November 13, 2013 at 3:10 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Bad Wolf - November 15, 2013 at 3:19 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by LostLocke - November 15, 2013 at 5:06 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Godschild - November 17, 2013 at 7:45 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Esquilax - November 17, 2013 at 7:48 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Foxaèr - November 17, 2013 at 7:43 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Bad Wolf - November 19, 2013 at 3:58 am
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Brakeman - November 19, 2013 at 1:50 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Bad Wolf - November 19, 2013 at 1:55 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by freedomfromforum - November 19, 2013 at 2:16 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Neo-Scholastic - November 19, 2013 at 2:26 pm
RE: Believing Vs Claiming to Believe - by Tonus - November 19, 2013 at 2:53 pm

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