(November 17, 2013 at 10:03 am)Rational AKD Wrote: that's not in any definition of objective I've ever read. why don't you try reading the definition yourself.
merriam-webster Wrote:based on facts rather than feelings or opinions : not influenced by feelingsnone of that says it must be contingent upon reality.
philosophy : existing outside of the mind : existing in the real world
Did you even read your own definition? Read the bolded part again - existing in real world. Which mean, it is contingent on reality.
(November 17, 2013 at 10:03 am)Rational AKD Wrote: then they are not statements of fact or propositions.
So what? A proposition contingent upon a non-proposition can be objectively true without relying on any necessary truths - which defeats your whole argument.
(November 17, 2013 at 10:03 am)Rational AKD Wrote: must I also teach you the definition of proposition?
Stanford Wrote:Propositions, we shall say, are the sharable objects of the attitudes and the primary bearers of truth and falsity. This stipulation rules out certain candidates for propositions, including thought- and utterance-tokens, which presumably are not sharable, and concrete events or facts, which presumably cannot be false.if it can't be true or false, it's not a proposition. that's a part if its very definition. it doesn't matter which theory of truth you subscribe because you can't go against the definition of the word, that would be what they call a contradiction.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/propositions/
Read it yourself - specifically the bolded part. Clearly, the non-propositions that a proposition is contingent upon are not subject to truth or falsity. This is where your failure to understand the theoris of truth comes into picture.
(November 17, 2013 at 10:03 am)Rational AKD Wrote: and the wiki link you gave concerning the law of excluded middle counts ignorance as "third possibility" though it's not necessary since ignorance is not a degree of truth. furthermore, ignorance is not exclusive of the other two options, true or false. if the truth value of a proposition is unknown that doesn't mean it doesn't have a truth value at all, which is what you are suggesting. and no, it doesn't mean its truth value is an option other than true or false either.
You really want me to bring up Liar's Paradox?