Believing Vs Claiming to Believe

[Bob Kelso]

Being baptized saves no one, it no more makes you a Christian than throwing a rock at an atheist, sorry you were mislead. You know if you had studied scripture you would have come to understand this.

No you misunderstand, I understand that the baptism is merely a public admission of accepting Jesus Christ, what I am saying is that I don't ever recall a time where I didn't worship or pray to him, besides recent years of course.

You said that the mind could make people believe things that's not true, now you're saying you wanted to feel that way, you need to choose which it is. If you choose "you wanted to feel" then you are saying free will is the right of man, a very different thing than most atheist proclaim here.

I'm saying it was both, I wanted to feel forgiven and loved, and when ones mind wants something badly then it's quite possible for it to feel these things from oneself.

As an example, that admittedly isn't quite cohesive but nonetheless I'll give it anyway, have you ever dealt with a stalker? They are so convinced their target feels things for them and the see little "signs" of it everywhere. No matter how ludicrous. Such as, oh my mailbox flag is up but there's no mail inside it must be Sally telling me she loves me.

Dishonest, hows that, atheist here are always comparing the scientific with the spiritual, yet when I do it you call it dishonest, par for the atheist coarse.

Dishonest in the fact that you know the types of knowledge are not the same. And I don't speak for other atheists, just myself.

Being around believers and study groups doesn't qualify anyone to have the knowledge of scriptures, I know people that have made quotes and say they came from scripture and they are nowhere to be found in scripture. These I speak of have been in the church for decades.
If you have a well founded knowledge of scriptures why don't you use it here. I would have a better idea of what to believe about you. Until I see you do this I will continue to believe you are a "want-to- be."

I shall, before I was not so keen to demonstrate such knowledge because I was loathe to possess it. I don't expect you to understand that but imagine you had spent your life wrongly believing something. People don't like being aware they have made mistakes, myself included.

Son, listen closely, what I'm saying here is life teaches lessons that do not come any other way than through years of living, years you have not even seen. Be patient life's lessons are on their way, there will be many you are not going to like but, those are the ones to remember. There will be many pleasant lessons too, but generally we have no trouble remembering them. Life's on the way hang on.

I have the understanding that some things in life cannot be learned until gone through, but what you're failing to take into consideration is that experience isn't always parallel with age. I'll leave it at that.

Sorry you mistook what I meant, on here I usually speak of the spiritual life, I know those who do not believe do good in their lives. Your ideas of morally correct and mine differ since you have left church not all but some.

I'll keep this in mind for future reference.

I also apologies for anything I said that was hurtful to you.

Apology accepted, perhaps we can hope to establish a more civilized rapport in the future.

I'm wondering what your grandfather feels, just a thought no need to explain.

He disagrees vehemently with my viewpoint, but is largely accepting that it's my decision.

I really do not think I had much if anything to do with you realizing your anger and that it may be miss placed but, I'm happy to see you realize that you need to deal with your anger. I want say good luck, I don't believe in luck in matters such as this. I have already done what I believe will help.

No it was self introspection mostly but this conversation did serve as a catalyst to some insight on my own reactions.

I can agree with you, people who practice Christianity as a religion and all other religions can bring ill feelings and harm, I get angry with Christians and others, and you can bet Christians do not escape my discussed with them. Please do not take this wrong I do not set myself above others, but I will always try and defend what I know as truth from God.

GC

Well I'm glad you see that it does bring harm, and I'm not blind to the good things that can come out of it but in my opinion it does not outweigh the bad by any means. Too many lives ruined and lost in the name of a deity that may or may not be there, and I'm of the opinion he isn't.

Defense in ones own beliefs is fine, as you can see I firmly defend my own. We don't agree on them so this is where we butt heads and discuss things, hopefully more civilly in the future.