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Necessary Truths Exist
#33
RE: Necessary Truths Exist
(November 17, 2013 at 11:25 am)genkaus Wrote: Did you even read your own definition? Read the bolded part again - existing in real world. Which mean, it is contingent on reality.

when talking about reality it refers to what the world has, not the world itself. a world has no properties if it contains nothing so it's not fair to suggest it is contingent on a world. a world wouldn't be a world if nothing existed in it.

Quote:So what? A proposition contingent upon a non-proposition can be objectively true without relying on any necessary truths - which defeats your whole argument.
really? give an example of a proposition contingent on a non-proposition.

Quote:Read it yourself - specifically the bolded part. Clearly, the non-propositions that a proposition is contingent upon are not subject to truth or falsity.
a proposition can't be contingent upon a non-proposition. the only examples given by Stanford of non-propositions are thought and word utterance. so what does this mean? mind and communication can't be subject to true and false. so the mind must exist because we think and communication must exist because we communicate. great... how does that help you?

Quote: You really want me to bring up Liar's Paradox?
no need. I already know the difference between conceived truth and actual truth, as you should. do you ever hear someone say "the truth was this but not it has changed"? of course not. they always say "I thought this was the truth but I was wrong." the act of deception has no effect on actual truth.

(November 17, 2013 at 6:08 pm)Walking Void Wrote: Please add this to your argument for necessary (or as You coined transcendent) truths:

A necessary truth is not time sensitive (therefore it does not change over time).

no need. if it was "time sensitive" then it would not be necessary. it would be contingent upon time, which is also contingent. calling them necessary or transcendent truths already imply they are not time sensitive.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them.
-Galileo
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Messages In This Thread
Necessary Truths Exist - by Rational AKD - October 31, 2013 at 6:03 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by FallentoReason - October 31, 2013 at 6:12 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Rational AKD - October 31, 2013 at 7:24 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Angrboda - October 31, 2013 at 7:34 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by FallentoReason - October 31, 2013 at 7:35 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Angrboda - October 31, 2013 at 7:08 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Rational AKD - October 31, 2013 at 7:46 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by bennyboy - October 31, 2013 at 8:21 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Rational AKD - November 2, 2013 at 7:33 pm
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by MindForgedManacle - November 16, 2013 at 1:46 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by downbeatplumb - November 16, 2013 at 7:04 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Doubting Thomas - October 31, 2013 at 8:24 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by MindForgedManacle - October 31, 2013 at 8:31 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Rational AKD - October 31, 2013 at 9:07 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by MindForgedManacle - October 31, 2013 at 12:15 pm
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Rational AKD - November 1, 2013 at 4:23 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by MindForgedManacle - November 1, 2013 at 9:44 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Walking Void - October 31, 2013 at 12:20 pm
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Whateverist - November 1, 2013 at 10:24 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Mister Agenda - November 1, 2013 at 10:45 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by genkaus - November 16, 2013 at 1:28 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Rational AKD - November 16, 2013 at 12:20 pm
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Optimistic Mysanthrope - November 16, 2013 at 12:47 pm
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Rational AKD - November 16, 2013 at 12:56 pm
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Optimistic Mysanthrope - November 16, 2013 at 1:34 pm
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by henryp - November 16, 2013 at 4:49 pm
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by genkaus - November 17, 2013 at 5:08 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by henryp - November 16, 2013 at 11:01 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 16, 2013 at 2:04 pm
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Rational AKD - November 17, 2013 at 10:03 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by genkaus - November 17, 2013 at 11:25 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Rational AKD - December 4, 2013 at 12:36 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by genkaus - December 4, 2013 at 5:26 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Rational AKD - December 5, 2013 at 9:15 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by LostLocke - December 5, 2013 at 9:32 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Rational AKD - December 5, 2013 at 9:39 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by genkaus - December 5, 2013 at 3:41 pm
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Rational AKD - December 6, 2013 at 12:31 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by genkaus - December 9, 2013 at 5:53 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Rational AKD - December 11, 2013 at 8:34 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by MindForgedManacle - December 11, 2013 at 12:21 pm
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Rational AKD - December 14, 2013 at 5:43 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by MindForgedManacle - December 14, 2013 at 12:26 pm
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Rational AKD - December 14, 2013 at 8:35 pm
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by MindForgedManacle - December 15, 2013 at 12:38 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Rational AKD - December 25, 2013 at 6:39 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by genkaus - December 12, 2013 at 7:41 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by LostLocke - December 4, 2013 at 9:38 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Walking Void - November 17, 2013 at 6:08 pm
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by GodsRevolt - December 4, 2013 at 6:19 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by LostLocke - December 5, 2013 at 10:37 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Rational AKD - December 5, 2013 at 10:57 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by MindForgedManacle - December 6, 2013 at 1:14 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Rational AKD - December 6, 2013 at 2:34 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Whateverist - December 6, 2013 at 1:32 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by MindForgedManacle - December 6, 2013 at 9:46 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by Rational AKD - December 7, 2013 at 6:10 am
RE: Necessary Truths Exist - by MindForgedManacle - December 10, 2013 at 1:47 am

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