RE: Is utopia impossible?
January 5, 2014 at 5:12 am
(This post was last modified: January 5, 2014 at 5:13 am by là bạn điên.)
(January 4, 2014 at 4:46 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Market must not mean to you what it means to me, then. To me, the market is the system by which I purchase things, i.e. buy the right to their exclusive private use.
So a company cannot buy things in a market then? Only individuals can purchase from a market in your view? You are precisely the only person who beleives this
Quote: I go to the market and buy a banana, so that I may have the exclusive right to consume it. And if someone else tries to eat it, I say (rightly) "Fuck off. That is my banana."
And if a Mutualist cooperative went to the market they could buy bananas to be shared amongst the members of their commune
Quote:If they accuse me of being bourgeousie swine for insisting on maintaining my exclusive right of consumption, I will (rightly) tell them again to fuck off, or maybe punch them in the face.
They may punch you back
Quote:If there is no private property, then what exactly is there that can be called a market?
Property in this case is owned by the co operative
Quote:Should we, then, just make sure that everyone has an equal number of bananas? What about my cousin, who hates bananas?
No one has said this
Quote:Should we insist that everyone has the same capital? Why? What about my cousin, who hates work, but is willing to live with less? What about me? I like to accumulate toys, and have spent many decades of self-improvement and sacrifice in order to arrange a circumstance where I can?
Quote:Communists focus too much on material fairness (ironically), ignoring the various abstracts that motivate people.
Personally I thibnk that is true but you seem to have no grasped what mutualism is
Quote: In a utopia, all people will be able to convert freely among the currencies of free time, of effort, of ownership, of liberty, etc. on a fair exchange. But what about people who want to convert their years of lying around on the sofa watching Oprah reruns into a nice car? That's the American utopia. And I hope it never exists.
?????