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Are there any Level 1's here?
#26
RE: Are there any Level 1's here?
(January 15, 2014 at 8:54 pm)Avodaiah Wrote: 1) The universe is governed.
Nothing in the universe can take up the same space as anything else. Therefore it can be said that the state of every object in the universe depends on the state of every other object in it.
Now take any 2 objects in the universe. If they both depend on each other, who/what is in charge of them? It can't be either of the objects, because then one could control the other, but not the other way around. And it can't be nothing, because then they would both be independent and neither would control the other. It has to be a third being/thing. Now extend this principle to the whole universe, and there must be a someone/something controlling everything in then universe.
*Cough*Laws of physics*Cough*
(January 15, 2014 at 8:54 pm)Avodaiah Wrote: 2) The governor is the same as the creator.
Nothing that depends on its governor can exist before or without it. Otherwise, it would not be dependent on it. Moreover, things in this universe cannot have existed forever, since cause-and-effect can only propagate forward, not infinitely backward. Therefore we had to come into existence under our governor's control, i.e. we were created by it. Finally, if the object was created by something, its creator would have made it a certain way, and therefore would be in charge of its state, making it the governor as well.
The more I thought about this one, the more I came to think that it might actually be correct. How the matter in the universe came to be is a topic that invites almost pure speculation at this point, but allowing that the laws of physics are eternal seems logical (though we technically don't even know this much).

However, if this premise is true, it does not support your hypothesis that god is the creator. If an action is a cause, and cause-effect cannot infinitely regress, then god cannot exist. Physics would have had nothing to act on if there was nothing in the universe, so they would be essentially inert forces and would not have any effect. However, a god, an entity, could conceivably commit certain actions even in the absence of matter and energy, creating the possibility of infinite regress. Physics, in this case, wouldn't need special pleading to be eternal because it wouldn't create an infinite regress as it would not be capable of having an effect without something to act on. A god could take an action however, making the existence of one inherently implausible from this perspective.
(January 15, 2014 at 8:54 pm)Avodaiah Wrote: 3) The mind is not a physical thing.
And neither is this webpage. But this webpage is clearly not magic. Next.
(January 15, 2014 at 8:54 pm)Avodaiah Wrote: There is a difference between how a human thinks and how any purely physical device solves problems. A physical device, e.g. a computer, uses physical means, e.g. transistors, to store and compute information.
You have already presupposed a soul or something similar by suggesting there is a non-physical component to the mind.
(January 15, 2014 at 8:54 pm)Avodaiah Wrote: But the motion of transistors is not knowledge. It cannot be called knowledge any more than flicking a light switch on and off can be called knowledge. The 'knowledge' on a computer seems to be knowledge much less so than information in the brain because a computer lacks a sentience to process said information.
It could be called knowledge more, but how much more I'm not sure. A light switch is far less complex than the information stored on a computer.
(January 15, 2014 at 8:54 pm)Avodaiah Wrote: With humans, it is different - we actually know and understand things. We are sentient.
In other words you are suggesting that a sentient robot is physically impossible. And you know this...how? The brain is governed by electrical impulses; why couldn't a robot be built off of the same principles some day? (I'm not saying whether or not it should, just that it could).
(January 15, 2014 at 8:54 pm)Avodaiah Wrote: 4) The governor/creator must be sentient.
This is probably the simplest of my four points: Humans are among those things in the universe that depend on each other and therefore share a governor/creator. Nothing can control a power it does not have. Therefore, if this governor/creator is in charge of sentient beings, he himself must be sentient.
What do you mean by "in charge of"? That fact that the laws of physics apply to sentient beings does not make physics itself sentient in nature.
(January 15, 2014 at 8:54 pm)Avodaiah Wrote: So now we have a sentient being who not only created everything in the universe, but also controls it. This is a god.
No we don't. Not by a long shot.
John Adams Wrote:The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
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Messages In This Thread
Are there any Level 1's here? - by Justtristo - January 10, 2014 at 2:38 am
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Angrboda - January 10, 2014 at 2:41 am
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Lemonvariable72 - January 10, 2014 at 2:41 am
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Godschild - January 11, 2014 at 1:10 am
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Chas - January 11, 2014 at 11:22 am
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Minimalist - January 11, 2014 at 11:34 am
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Cato - January 11, 2014 at 12:33 pm
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Angrboda - January 11, 2014 at 3:03 am
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Godschild - January 14, 2014 at 3:13 pm
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Angrboda - January 14, 2014 at 3:21 pm
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Whateverist - January 11, 2014 at 3:31 am
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Esquilax - January 11, 2014 at 3:49 am
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by LostLocke - January 11, 2014 at 12:24 pm
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by ShaMan - January 14, 2014 at 3:43 pm
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Godschild - January 14, 2014 at 6:32 pm
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by ShaMan - January 14, 2014 at 7:11 pm
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Drich - January 17, 2014 at 11:35 pm
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Mister Agenda - January 14, 2014 at 3:50 pm
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Angrboda - January 14, 2014 at 3:52 pm
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Avodaiah - January 14, 2014 at 9:07 pm
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Ben Davis - January 15, 2014 at 10:20 am
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Avodaiah - January 15, 2014 at 8:54 pm
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Esquilax - January 15, 2014 at 11:05 pm
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Darkstar - January 15, 2014 at 11:13 pm
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Avodaiah - January 17, 2014 at 3:46 pm
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Chas - January 18, 2014 at 11:35 am
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Esquilax - January 18, 2014 at 11:41 am
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Darkstar - January 18, 2014 at 4:24 pm
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Ksa - January 15, 2014 at 8:41 pm
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Angrboda - January 15, 2014 at 9:37 pm
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Rahul - January 15, 2014 at 9:48 pm
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Sinnersburninhell100 - January 16, 2014 at 12:26 am
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Darkstar - January 16, 2014 at 12:38 am
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Esquilax - January 16, 2014 at 1:12 am
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Sinnersburninhell100 - January 16, 2014 at 1:20 am
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Esquilax - January 16, 2014 at 1:37 am
RE: Are there any Level 1's here? - by Chas - January 16, 2014 at 12:17 pm

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