(January 22, 2014 at 1:57 pm)Drich Wrote: You do know there wasn't a 'law' in the consitution that seperated Church and state right?The Bill of Rights is part of the constitution. It's rather telling that church and state separation was enshrined in law at about the same time people were given rights. I would say that's pretty substantial.
That did not happen till the bill of rights in 1891
First Amendment to the United States Constitution
(January 22, 2014 at 1:57 pm)Drich Wrote: Our first president prayed like the rest of the founding Father's therefore our values are based on their collective religion.Since when do deists pray?
(January 22, 2014 at 1:57 pm)Drich Wrote: So?I never argued that Jefferson was an atheist. However, he did not believe in the divinity of Jesus, so it would be rather strange for him to try to found a nation based off of that.
I do not agree with the doctrine of orginal sin (as it is not biblical) nor am I in agreement with the traditional doctrines of predestination as they make many non biblical leaps.
None of this makes Jefferson an atheist. Do you consider me an atheist?
And yet I do not consider myself in agreement with 18th century theology muck like jefferson did not completely jive with that theology.
(January 22, 2014 at 1:57 pm)Drich Wrote: You can debate all you like but I left you with 2 pages of bible quotes the man used in his various speaches.. And not just passing references but alot of these quotes were the keystones to his speaches.Are you sure you want to play this game?
This is not something an unbeliever would do. Heck this is not some most believer presidents would do. Look at all the ones who came before him..
(January 22, 2014 at 1:57 pm)Drich Wrote:I don't think he ever said that, just that they weren't particularly Christian. They did make laws ensuring the freedom to practice religion, after all.Quote:What does this have to do with separation of church and state again?Begs the question I was not addressing the current understanding of that term. I was answering the OP that said our founding Fathers were anti religion.
And before you say that "Christian value X is supported by the founding fathers", keep in mind that Christianity doesn't have a monopoly on morality, nor is it the origin of it.
John Adams Wrote:The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.