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Order vs. Randomness
#21
RE: Order vs. Randomness
(January 26, 2014 at 11:21 pm)Rayaan Wrote: Indeed, the earth is an infinitesimal spec in this universe amongst many, but I disagree that everything else is "completely random."

Complete randomness in nature is not only unproven, but is also impossible at the smallest scales.
That immediately strikes me as presumptuous given our limited scope on origin questions but my understanding of a quantum vacuum is that it indeed produces quite random quantum behavior, particles popping in and out of existence. However, I'm open to alternative views.

Quote:If life was found to be more common in this universe, then I suppose that would be just more evidence of order. However, my point is that if there exists any amount of order in this universe at all (especially the amount of order that exists in biological systems), then there also must be order at the most fundamental level of reality.
I'm not really familiar with various information theories but again I think you would have to demonstrate this to be the case for it to be something other than speculation. Changes occur, and to organisms within the process, sure it seems ordered, because self-organization is inherent to our biology... but is that a fundamental element to (unconscious) existence itself? It hardly seems like it.

Quote:Since orderly systems cannot arise from purely random processes,

Is that the second law of thermodynamics?

Quote:Since orderly systems cannot arise from purely random processes, nor out of nothing, it must come from an underlying pre-existing order. And, in my mind, the concepts "order" and "design" are inseparably fused together with the idea of an intelligent designer because order is an aspect of intelligence, not of randomness.

Even the universe operating on an "algorithm" (as you said) implies that the universe is best described by an underlying order, not randomness.


EVEN IF THAT IS TRUE, why does order imply mind? It seems to me that rather mind apprehends orderliness and uses this knowledge to mimic it, but that need not necessitate that mind is needed for the existence of order. It could just be, if it is, THE WAY IT SIMPLY IS.
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Messages In This Thread
Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - January 25, 2014 at 10:41 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Minimalist - January 25, 2014 at 11:09 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Odysseus - January 25, 2014 at 11:21 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Minimalist - January 25, 2014 at 11:40 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - January 26, 2014 at 7:41 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Zen Badger - January 26, 2014 at 1:36 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Odysseus - January 26, 2014 at 4:35 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Zen Badger - January 26, 2014 at 11:34 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Odysseus - January 27, 2014 at 6:23 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Assimilate - January 26, 2014 at 2:56 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - January 26, 2014 at 7:40 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - January 26, 2014 at 4:40 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Minimalist - January 26, 2014 at 4:43 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by StuW - January 26, 2014 at 5:03 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Darkstar - January 26, 2014 at 11:52 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Assimilate - January 27, 2014 at 12:01 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Mudhammam - January 26, 2014 at 6:11 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - January 26, 2014 at 11:21 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Alex K - January 28, 2014 at 12:17 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Angrboda - January 26, 2014 at 9:31 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Assimilate - January 26, 2014 at 11:40 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - January 27, 2014 at 1:05 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Mudhammam - January 27, 2014 at 1:41 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Neo-Scholastic - January 28, 2014 at 8:16 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Mudhammam - January 28, 2014 at 12:16 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Assimilate - January 27, 2014 at 2:27 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Neo-Scholastic - January 28, 2014 at 12:47 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Alex K - January 28, 2014 at 3:47 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by houseofcantor - January 28, 2014 at 9:13 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - January 29, 2014 at 6:49 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Alex K - January 30, 2014 at 8:40 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by KichigaiNeko - January 29, 2014 at 6:51 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - January 30, 2014 at 7:15 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Mudhammam - January 30, 2014 at 8:18 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by bennyboy - January 29, 2014 at 10:56 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Mudhammam - January 30, 2014 at 8:45 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Alex K - January 30, 2014 at 8:54 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Neo-Scholastic - January 31, 2014 at 2:14 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Mudhammam - January 31, 2014 at 8:32 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Mudhammam - January 30, 2014 at 8:57 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by houseofcantor - January 30, 2014 at 9:08 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Brian37 - January 30, 2014 at 9:09 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Neo-Scholastic - February 1, 2014 at 12:30 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Chas - January 30, 2014 at 9:51 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - January 31, 2014 at 2:31 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Whateverist - February 2, 2014 at 7:19 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Mudhammam - January 31, 2014 at 2:54 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Alex K - January 31, 2014 at 3:35 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - February 1, 2014 at 7:07 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Mudhammam - February 1, 2014 at 2:51 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - February 2, 2014 at 8:11 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Mudhammam - February 2, 2014 at 9:03 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Angrboda - February 2, 2014 at 6:37 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - February 3, 2014 at 4:09 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Alex K - February 3, 2014 at 4:41 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Mudhammam - February 3, 2014 at 5:13 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - February 3, 2014 at 5:44 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Alex K - February 3, 2014 at 6:10 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Mudhammam - February 3, 2014 at 5:48 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - February 3, 2014 at 5:59 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Mudhammam - February 3, 2014 at 6:08 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Whateverist - February 3, 2014 at 11:14 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Tonus - February 3, 2014 at 6:39 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - February 3, 2014 at 7:17 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Alex K - February 8, 2014 at 2:21 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by FreeTony - February 3, 2014 at 7:47 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - February 4, 2014 at 2:53 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by FreeTony - February 4, 2014 at 6:36 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - February 8, 2014 at 1:58 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Sword of Christ - February 8, 2014 at 5:25 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - February 10, 2014 at 7:27 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Alex K - February 10, 2014 at 9:39 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - February 16, 2014 at 8:49 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Angrboda - February 18, 2014 at 2:04 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - February 18, 2014 at 12:27 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - February 20, 2014 at 2:57 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Angrboda - February 20, 2014 at 4:23 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - February 21, 2014 at 6:21 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Angrboda - February 21, 2014 at 7:28 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - February 22, 2014 at 3:17 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Angrboda - February 22, 2014 at 3:26 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by *Deidre* - February 22, 2014 at 5:02 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - February 23, 2014 at 3:51 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Angrboda - February 23, 2014 at 1:20 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by truthBtold - February 23, 2014 at 4:32 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by *Deidre* - February 23, 2014 at 4:24 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - February 23, 2014 at 5:11 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Angrboda - February 23, 2014 at 5:53 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by truthBtold - February 23, 2014 at 6:18 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - February 23, 2014 at 6:49 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Angrboda - February 23, 2014 at 7:36 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Mr. Moncrieff - February 23, 2014 at 6:35 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - February 23, 2014 at 8:20 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Angrboda - February 23, 2014 at 9:10 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - February 23, 2014 at 10:32 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Angrboda - February 23, 2014 at 10:49 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - February 23, 2014 at 11:25 pm
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by fr0d0 - February 24, 2014 at 5:31 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - March 1, 2014 at 7:12 am
RE: Order vs. Randomness - by Rayaan - March 1, 2014 at 7:14 am

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