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Science and Randomness
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Can a true Scientist ever accept that at some point there will be a limit to their ability to use science to understand the mechanism of a particular event and that, that event or those events be deemed as random and from then on science will be the exploration of the patterns and laws the result from these random process." beyond this point there be monsters"
Every true scientist accepts that.
The method used to aquire scientific knowlege is called "critical rationalism", and it`s main goal is the falsification of theories and not the pursuit of absolute truths. But of course there are fields and circumstances where scientists like to theoretisise a bit out side of these relaims. Ever heard of the theories arround "the first spoken language"? I think this documentary about that subject will answere your question: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0phq7litTc
There have always been limits, it's not really something that someone has to accept, one day, in the far flung future. We have our own limits, the instrumentation we devise has limits, there are limits external to ourselves or our instrumentation(the veil of time imposed by distance and the transit of light, for example - what if I wanted to know what was happening on proxima centauri at this very moment from my comfy spot here on terra firma? How might I go about finding that out?)
Along the same lines, what sorts of patterns would random events form in any case?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(January 5, 2013 at 11:29 am)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: Every true scientist accepts that. nice video so much interesting stuff especially as I am fascinated by ancient history. some things popped to mind at various points 1) nice examples of sciences working together and the collection of evidence and even the debate about what is evidence. 2) the reluctance of some to extrapolate too much from the evidence and the willingness of other to maybe extrapolate too much 3) the willingness of one guy to make up a language and give it a name even to the point of creating words like the real words with no evidence just his own assumption. 4) how easily in some places little assumptions were slipped in to validate what seemed very very plausable theory. The one wher the guy was trying to date the possible dates of language by linking complex social behaviours ( i think it was to the development of language) 5) one linguist claiming linguistics is a science but another suggesting that it should be allowed a little lee way on the burden of proofs expected in other sciences 6) how unique in Europe the Basques are and how important for scientific reason they should have their isolation protected a little buy keeping them a separate nation from Spain. 7) the source of all evil is farming. the evidence is becoming ever more convincing. Cain V Abel could be another "MYTH" with some truth lol Just my thoughts expressed directly but thank you for sending the link even though i cursed you a bit at start when I seen length time at start. (January 5, 2013 at 12:53 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: 7) the source of all evil is farming. the evidence is becoming ever more convincing. Cain V Abel could be another "MYTH" with some truth lol .................................................... sigh.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
RE: Science and Randomness
January 5, 2013 at 12:58 pm
(This post was last modified: January 5, 2013 at 1:00 pm by Mark 13:13.)
(January 5, 2013 at 12:37 pm)Rhythm Wrote: There have always been limits, it's not really something that someone has to accept, one day, in the far flung future. We have our own limits, the instrumentation we devise has limits, there are limits external to ourselves or our instrumentation(the veil of time imposed by distance and the transit of light, for example - what if I wanted to know what was happening on proxima centauri at this very moment from my comfy spot here on terra firma? How might I go about finding that out?) So are you saying that although there may be limits associated with a particular state of science development there can in theory be no randomness area that ulimately will elude science given enough time. (January 5, 2013 at 12:56 pm)Rhythm Wrote:(January 5, 2013 at 12:53 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: 7) the source of all evil is farming. the evidence is becoming ever more convincing. Cain V Abel could be another "MYTH" with some truth lol LOL doesn't the rise in organised religion only realy start with the development of farming?  (January 5, 2013 at 11:14 am)Mark 13:13 Wrote: Can a true Scientist ever accept that at some point there will be a limit to their ability to use science to understand the mechanism of a particular event and that, that event or those events be deemed as random and from then on science will be the exploration of the patterns and laws the result from these random process." beyond this point there be monsters" You lost me when I got to the part I put in bold.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
RE: Science and Randomness
January 5, 2013 at 1:09 pm
(This post was last modified: January 5, 2013 at 1:11 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(January 5, 2013 at 12:58 pm)Mark 13:13 Wrote: So are you saying that although there may be limits associated with a particular state of science development there can in theory be no randomness area that ulimately will elude science given enough time.No, but if your bullet point list contains that entry and you'd like to argue against it be my guest. Quote:LOL doesn't the rise in organised religion only realy start with the development of farming?I run a decent little farm myself, for some strange reason I haven't been harvesting gods where I expected to find carrots. Meanwhile, I remain mysteriously immune to the causative agent proposed. It would probably be less of a stretch to say that farming -being the absolutely brilliant discovery that it was- allowed for larger groups of people (who already had fun little beliefs and idols by the by) to coalesce and sustain themselves. It might have also promoted conformity in those populations, a situation we're all to familiar with even today is that when you start cramming more people in tighter spaces problems arise. If only one could sell people on the idea of social mandates and absolute authority, you might be able to reduce some confrontation (or at least get a bigger slice of the pie, in any case).
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
LastPoet
 Leader of the gang of jerkoffs(tm)  Religious Views: L'Uomo verrà portato dalla sua creazione
I might try a bite at it FNM, although it is vague:
(January 5, 2013 at 11:14 am)Mark 13:13 Wrote: Can a true Scientist ever accept that at some point there will be a limit to their ability to use science to understand the mechanism of a particular event and that, that event or those events be deemed as random and from then on science will be the exploration of the patterns and laws the result from these random process." beyond this point there be monsters"(Take heed to the bolded part) You surely need to know a bit more about Math, namely dynamic chaos. For now, you could listen to this old man: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay8OMOsf6AQ If you can't understand what he says, you shouldn't do that affirmation. RE: Science and Randomness
January 5, 2013 at 2:14 pm
(This post was last modified: January 5, 2013 at 2:48 pm by Mark 13:13.)
(January 5, 2013 at 1:03 pm)Faith No More Wrote:Trying to finds another way of putting it, If science finds a process that it can't understand the mechanism for is that then deemed as random and if it is does science believe this is a temporary state of definition as in time it will understand stand the process and therefore it will be understood. So by this thought does science in general believe in the end it can discover the mechanisms behind every process no matter how small so that(January 5, 2013 at 11:14 am)Mark 13:13 Wrote: Can a true Scientist ever accept that at some point there will be a limit to their ability to use science to understand the mechanism of a particular event and that, that event or those events be deemed as random and from then on science will be the exploration of the patterns and laws the result from these random process." beyond this point there be monsters" 1)in the end there can be no random.. or 2) do scientists believe there will always be these random areas ( if I can define them as such for want of better words ) infinately regressing forever so there will always be in science an unknowable however small ..or 3) it will hit a definate area it can't peer into any further. or even 4) science can't answer this question before i can explore the process of sciences and its opinion of creation going forward I need to look at how science looks backwards and this knowledge gaps and randomness ideas i need to explore. (January 5, 2013 at 1:12 pm)LastPoet Wrote: I might try a bite at it FNM, although it is vague: I understood but of course then we need to find the equations, the mechanisms that determine the numbers. even such silly things as what are the pages of the cosmos that allows the shapes to evolve ( metaphor ) ps whats FNM. |
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