determinism versus indeterminism

[Edwardo Piet]

There is anecdotal evitability, we are able to construct a cause and effect tale for ourselves and save it on our 'hard disk' for later use.

Yes I agree there is anecdotal evitability. I am just not convinced that thats the only evitability. There may be others. It seems you have thought it through more than me. I certainly want to get 'Freedom Evolves.'

That sounds like inevitablity to me.

Indeed. I was just trying to elaborate it a bit to help at least myself understand it And see if I have understood you correctly.

And this sounds like evitability to me. So in the former quote you on the one hand conclude that our specific future is inevitable, and in the above you suggest that there is still somehow evitability. In order to do so imo you have to smuggle in a posteriori free will (free will reasoning afterwards).

Yeah I agree. I'm just not sure if thats the only evitability because I'm not a determinist particularly. I'm not sure really. I haven't thought about indeterminism much I guess. There's not really much evidence THERE for me to disprove that I know of But there could be seperate futures I guess if you get into the crazy world of random (or seemingly random) quantum mechanics for example. And perhaps random genetic mutation.

The essential issue isn't about deterministic vs indeterministic, I agree. But it certainly feels as a loss that free will does not exist in the sense that we can influence outcomes directly by intervening in cause and effect cycli with decision processess.

What I don't get is that if you knew the future and this made you feel a loss and lose your free will. Then does that mean it was inevitable that you would lose your free will through understanding that the future is determined?
I don't see how it would. If I saw in the future that a steam roller was going to run over me at an extremely slow rate from behind me.
How could I possibly not find the evitability to turn round, spot it and move out the way (in the plenty of time that allowed me to do it)? Considering the fact I would know exactly when it was coming and that I had plenty of time to get out of the way and that it was behind me. If that caused me to freeze because it was determined that I would. I don't get that. Surely I would - after recognizing WHAT was going to happen - know it was behind me and just MOVE. This is confusing to me. Am I making any sense here? Lol

The cause-and-effect-anecdotes with which we analyse our actions (afterwards!) are saved as experiences and can be retrieved later in assessing a similar situation. Imo there's only evitability in the sense that our prior experiences are input for our actions. There is however imo no independent human decision process that intervenes in the cause and effect flow that is governed by laws of nature, be it deterministic or undeterministic.

I agree with that but I'm not sure I'm a determinist yet. I just think that whether determinist or indeterminist. There is still evitability.

PS: I too like this discussion and value your opinion.

Good Its mutual then.