(February 9, 2014 at 2:10 pm)max-greece Wrote: As I expected you haven't understood what I meant by causality having to be different for your god explanation to be correct.
Basically you can either have purposeful universe and we're part of that purpose or an accidental/non-intentional universe as a byproduct of a process and we're the byproducts of that. I prefer the purposeful premise but I also think it's the more likely premise as well everything considered. There's a chance I'm mistaken and you have it right of course so it's good to see the counter arguments people have, in case there's something I have missed.
Quote:Causality down here on earth for physical things requires a material cause.
Consciousness could be the ultimate cause for all physical things and material processes, the foundation of reality and our consciousness is a part of this aspect of non-physical reality we would call God. Unless there is an explanation for matter/collections of atoms can create consciousness which as far as I can tell no-one can provide.
Quote:It also eliminates the God argument if you believe that God created the universe from nothing.
If the foundation of physical reality is eternal consciousness rather than eternal matter/energy then "creatio ex nihilo" from nothing would still apply. The physical universe would have been brought into existence rather than being crafted from already existent matter. The alternative is creatio ex materia where the universe is created from pre-existent matter which is the foundation for the universe, this is something atheists and Mormons believe in. Most religious would place consciousness first and matter is either the creation or an illusion of consciousness.
Quote:So either causality works the same outside the universe as it does within it
Whatever is "outside the universe" would if it can be observed and detected by us through physical means just be an extension of our own universe. If something was to be fundamentally different then it would be beyond the scope of what we know or can know through that means.
Quote: (highly unlikely) and both the religious and scientific arguments are wrong or causality does apply as it does within the universe. You can't have it both ways.
There are religions such as Mormonism and Raelianism that agree with the view you call the "scientific argument" which is creatio ex materia. They also believe physical restoration to life after death to live alien planets in space but a minor difference there. The general idea is broadly the same.
Come all ye faithful joyful and triumphant.
