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Fine tuning argument assessed
#57
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed
(February 10, 2014 at 2:01 pm)Tonus Wrote:
(February 10, 2014 at 1:55 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: God create life by tuning the universe to produce life through the generation the necessary materials and organised structures. Galaxies, stars, solar systems and planets.
You didn't answer the question. Had the parameters been changed, would god have been unable to create life?

The fine tuning arguments main failing is that in order to try and prove its point it only ever changes one property in isolation.

The problem with this is that one change would have an effect on the others.

http://journalofcosmology.com/Anthropic101.html

Quote:In the context of the anthropic principle, we have examined three possibilities which might suggest that nuclear forces in the world are "tuned for intelligent life". First, it was once feared that an increase in the strength of the nuclear force by even a few percent could cause all of the hydrogen in the Big Bang to bind into the diproton (i.e. He2 ). This would cause the lightest helium isotope to be stable, and such an outcome could effectively destroy hydrogen, thereby precluding intelligent life. However, this fear has been significantly softened by detailed models. The models indicate that even if the nuclear force is altered by a factor in excess of 100 percent, a significant amount of hydrogen survives. Thus, the tuning (if it exists) which preserves hydrogen in the Big Bang (thereby preparing the way for life), can hardly be considered "fine tuning". Second, if the diproton were in fact to be stable, then the p-p chain in the Sun would proceed some 18 orders of magnitude faster than it does in our world. This led to the fear that the Sun would evolve so rapidly, on scales of millions of years, that there might be not enough time for any life (let alone intelligent life) to evolve. But again, detailed models have softened the blow here also. It is true that an object of one solar mass would burn up all its hydrogen within a few times 107 years. But one then simply shifts attention to the evolution of a lower mass star (e.g. 0.22 solar masses) to find an object which radiates with the luminosity of the current Sun, and which has a hydrogen-burning lifetime of several billion years. On a planet orbiting at 1 AU around such a star, the environmental conditions could be essentially identical to our Earth, even if the diproton were stable. Thus, in the context of stellar evolution, the nuclear force strength does not appear to be tuned to any significant extent for intelligent life.

The strongest evidence for "tuning" of the nuclear force in our world emerges from a study of the relative abundances of C and O. Because resonant levels are involved, even slight shifts, of order 0.5%, in the strength of the nuclear force can alter the C/O ratio by factors of 10 or more, up or down relative to the current value. Such alterations could lead to quite different biochemical molecules from those which exist in our world: the potential impact of such different biomolecules on the development of intelligent life remains an interesting and open question.



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








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Messages In This Thread
Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - February 9, 2014 at 4:42 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Zen Badger - February 9, 2014 at 4:53 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Mr. Moncrieff - March 1, 2014 at 9:01 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Jacob(smooth) - February 9, 2014 at 4:57 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Heywood - March 8, 2014 at 7:02 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by WesOlsen - February 9, 2014 at 5:11 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Rayaan - February 9, 2014 at 5:18 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - February 9, 2014 at 5:27 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Jacob(smooth) - February 9, 2014 at 5:36 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Esquilax - February 9, 2014 at 5:51 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Rayaan - February 9, 2014 at 6:40 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Jacob(smooth) - February 9, 2014 at 1:04 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - February 9, 2014 at 7:26 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Esquilax - February 9, 2014 at 8:17 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 9, 2014 at 7:59 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - February 9, 2014 at 8:10 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 9, 2014 at 11:43 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Esquilax - February 9, 2014 at 11:49 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by WesOlsen - February 9, 2014 at 9:53 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 9, 2014 at 12:22 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Cato - February 9, 2014 at 1:29 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by LostLocke - February 9, 2014 at 10:10 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by FreeTony - February 9, 2014 at 10:36 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Tonus - February 9, 2014 at 11:48 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Whateverist - February 9, 2014 at 12:30 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by FreeTony - February 9, 2014 at 1:17 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Jacob(smooth) - February 9, 2014 at 1:35 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by FreeTony - February 9, 2014 at 1:56 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Jacob(smooth) - February 9, 2014 at 2:05 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Whateverist - February 9, 2014 at 2:44 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - February 9, 2014 at 2:10 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 9, 2014 at 2:46 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by WesOlsen - February 9, 2014 at 2:20 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 9, 2014 at 5:33 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Whateverist - February 9, 2014 at 2:48 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by FreeTony - February 9, 2014 at 3:03 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Whateverist - February 9, 2014 at 3:32 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Chas - February 9, 2014 at 3:33 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Jacob(smooth) - February 9, 2014 at 3:38 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Rayaan - February 9, 2014 at 5:11 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - February 9, 2014 at 6:08 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by FreeTony - February 9, 2014 at 5:29 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Rayaan - February 9, 2014 at 6:43 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Esquilax - February 10, 2014 at 12:46 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by FreeTony - February 9, 2014 at 7:24 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Whateverist - February 9, 2014 at 7:40 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 9, 2014 at 8:00 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by houseofcantor - February 10, 2014 at 11:06 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Whateverist - February 9, 2014 at 8:54 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - February 10, 2014 at 1:10 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Angrboda - February 10, 2014 at 1:12 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 10, 2014 at 11:46 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Tonus - February 10, 2014 at 11:53 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 10, 2014 at 1:55 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Tonus - February 10, 2014 at 2:01 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by downbeatplumb - February 10, 2014 at 2:42 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 10, 2014 at 3:43 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Mister Agenda - February 10, 2014 at 3:54 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 10, 2014 at 4:52 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Tonus - February 10, 2014 at 3:57 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by hatsoff - February 10, 2014 at 4:01 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Tonus - February 10, 2014 at 4:09 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by hatsoff - February 10, 2014 at 4:25 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Tonus - February 10, 2014 at 4:34 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Mothonis - February 22, 2014 at 1:05 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by hatsoff - February 10, 2014 at 3:56 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by hatsoff - February 10, 2014 at 3:23 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by MindForgedManacle - February 10, 2014 at 10:41 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Ryantology - February 10, 2014 at 11:53 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - February 10, 2014 at 12:47 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Mister Agenda - February 10, 2014 at 3:04 pm
Re: Fine tuning argument assessed - by StuW - February 10, 2014 at 4:28 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by WesOlsen - February 10, 2014 at 5:19 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 10, 2014 at 8:29 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Angrboda - February 10, 2014 at 11:17 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by JuliaL - February 11, 2014 at 12:31 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by EvolutionKills - February 11, 2014 at 10:20 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Wyrd of Gawd - February 25, 2014 at 5:44 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Chas - February 26, 2014 at 1:36 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 1, 2014 at 2:57 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Chas - March 1, 2014 at 8:35 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 1, 2014 at 1:58 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Chas - March 2, 2014 at 1:10 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by houseofcantor - March 2, 2014 at 9:46 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by LostLocke - March 2, 2014 at 10:07 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Minimalist - February 11, 2014 at 12:56 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by WesOlsen - February 11, 2014 at 3:03 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Chas - February 22, 2014 at 12:35 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Minimalist - February 22, 2014 at 1:59 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by jesus_wept - February 26, 2014 at 4:50 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - March 1, 2014 at 2:11 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 2, 2014 at 8:47 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by LostLocke - March 2, 2014 at 9:53 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 4, 2014 at 12:35 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by LostLocke - March 4, 2014 at 8:04 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 4, 2014 at 2:48 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by LostLocke - March 4, 2014 at 2:58 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Chas - March 10, 2014 at 10:00 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by houseofcantor - March 2, 2014 at 10:18 am
Fine tuning argument assessed - by Rampant.A.I. - March 10, 2014 at 10:35 pm

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