Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: September 2, 2026, 11:29 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Fine tuning argument assessed
#65
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed
(February 10, 2014 at 4:01 pm)hatsoff Wrote: I don't see how this follows. Fine-tuning proponents are usually pretty clear that for each constant there is a range of life-permitting values, any of which would do the job. But the range is small, relative to the range of all possible values.
In the discussions I can recall (and the beliefs I held when I was a theist), the argument from fine-tuning is that life would be impossible unless those values were in a very tight range, and that any deviation would make life impossible.

If that is the case, then the implication is that god cannot create life except under limited circumstances, which seems at odds with the idea that he created the universe and wrote the laws by which it works. It would imply that the universe was designed by someone else, and god found it.

If the argument is that there are other settings that would also work, then at the very least the fine-tuning argument is weakened. We no longer are talking about a frightfully-narrow band of settings that seem so improbable that they make a compelling case for a creator. It just means that out of the numerous possible universes and the possible life forms that could be produced, this is the one we wound up with.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - February 9, 2014 at 4:42 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Zen Badger - February 9, 2014 at 4:53 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Mr. Moncrieff - March 1, 2014 at 9:01 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Jacob(smooth) - February 9, 2014 at 4:57 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Heywood - March 8, 2014 at 7:02 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by WesOlsen - February 9, 2014 at 5:11 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Rayaan - February 9, 2014 at 5:18 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - February 9, 2014 at 5:27 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Jacob(smooth) - February 9, 2014 at 5:36 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Esquilax - February 9, 2014 at 5:51 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Rayaan - February 9, 2014 at 6:40 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Jacob(smooth) - February 9, 2014 at 1:04 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - February 9, 2014 at 7:26 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Esquilax - February 9, 2014 at 8:17 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 9, 2014 at 7:59 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - February 9, 2014 at 8:10 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 9, 2014 at 11:43 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Esquilax - February 9, 2014 at 11:49 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by WesOlsen - February 9, 2014 at 9:53 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 9, 2014 at 12:22 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Cato - February 9, 2014 at 1:29 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by LostLocke - February 9, 2014 at 10:10 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by FreeTony - February 9, 2014 at 10:36 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Tonus - February 9, 2014 at 11:48 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Whateverist - February 9, 2014 at 12:30 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by FreeTony - February 9, 2014 at 1:17 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Jacob(smooth) - February 9, 2014 at 1:35 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by FreeTony - February 9, 2014 at 1:56 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Jacob(smooth) - February 9, 2014 at 2:05 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Whateverist - February 9, 2014 at 2:44 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - February 9, 2014 at 2:10 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 9, 2014 at 2:46 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by WesOlsen - February 9, 2014 at 2:20 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 9, 2014 at 5:33 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Whateverist - February 9, 2014 at 2:48 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by FreeTony - February 9, 2014 at 3:03 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Whateverist - February 9, 2014 at 3:32 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Chas - February 9, 2014 at 3:33 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Jacob(smooth) - February 9, 2014 at 3:38 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Rayaan - February 9, 2014 at 5:11 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - February 9, 2014 at 6:08 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by FreeTony - February 9, 2014 at 5:29 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Rayaan - February 9, 2014 at 6:43 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Esquilax - February 10, 2014 at 12:46 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by FreeTony - February 9, 2014 at 7:24 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Whateverist - February 9, 2014 at 7:40 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 9, 2014 at 8:00 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by houseofcantor - February 10, 2014 at 11:06 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Whateverist - February 9, 2014 at 8:54 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - February 10, 2014 at 1:10 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Angrboda - February 10, 2014 at 1:12 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 10, 2014 at 11:46 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Tonus - February 10, 2014 at 11:53 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 10, 2014 at 1:55 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Tonus - February 10, 2014 at 2:01 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by downbeatplumb - February 10, 2014 at 2:42 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 10, 2014 at 3:43 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Mister Agenda - February 10, 2014 at 3:54 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 10, 2014 at 4:52 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Tonus - February 10, 2014 at 3:57 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by hatsoff - February 10, 2014 at 4:01 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Tonus - February 10, 2014 at 4:09 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by hatsoff - February 10, 2014 at 4:25 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Tonus - February 10, 2014 at 4:34 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Mothonis - February 22, 2014 at 1:05 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by hatsoff - February 10, 2014 at 3:56 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by hatsoff - February 10, 2014 at 3:23 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by MindForgedManacle - February 10, 2014 at 10:41 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Ryantology - February 10, 2014 at 11:53 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - February 10, 2014 at 12:47 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Mister Agenda - February 10, 2014 at 3:04 pm
Re: Fine tuning argument assessed - by StuW - February 10, 2014 at 4:28 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by WesOlsen - February 10, 2014 at 5:19 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 10, 2014 at 8:29 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Angrboda - February 10, 2014 at 11:17 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by JuliaL - February 11, 2014 at 12:31 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by EvolutionKills - February 11, 2014 at 10:20 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Wyrd of Gawd - February 25, 2014 at 5:44 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Chas - February 26, 2014 at 1:36 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 1, 2014 at 2:57 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Chas - March 1, 2014 at 8:35 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 1, 2014 at 1:58 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Chas - March 2, 2014 at 1:10 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by houseofcantor - March 2, 2014 at 9:46 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by LostLocke - March 2, 2014 at 10:07 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Minimalist - February 11, 2014 at 12:56 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by WesOlsen - February 11, 2014 at 3:03 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Chas - February 22, 2014 at 12:35 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Minimalist - February 22, 2014 at 1:59 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by jesus_wept - February 26, 2014 at 4:50 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - March 1, 2014 at 2:11 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 2, 2014 at 8:47 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by LostLocke - March 2, 2014 at 9:53 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 4, 2014 at 12:35 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by LostLocke - March 4, 2014 at 8:04 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 4, 2014 at 2:48 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by LostLocke - March 4, 2014 at 2:58 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Chas - March 10, 2014 at 10:00 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by houseofcantor - March 2, 2014 at 10:18 am
Fine tuning argument assessed - by Rampant.A.I. - March 10, 2014 at 10:35 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  The Kalam Cosmological argument. JJoseph 113 27840 January 10, 2024 at 12:38 am
Last Post: Astreja
  A 21st Century Ontological Argument: does it work. JJoseph 23 7058 January 9, 2024 at 8:10 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Fine Tuning Principle: Devastating Disproof and Scientific Refutation of Atheism. Nishant Xavier 97 28989 September 20, 2023 at 1:31 pm
Last Post: Paraselene
  Conscience and the Moral Argument as Evidence for the Goodness of God. Nishant Xavier 162 39537 July 9, 2023 at 7:53 am
Last Post: Deesse23
  Signature in the Cell: DNA as Evidence for Design, beside Nature's Laws/Fine-Tuning. Nishant Xavier 54 13202 July 8, 2023 at 8:23 am
Last Post: Fake Messiah
  Is the Argument from Degrees contradictory to the 3rd Law of Thermodynamics? FlatAssembler 49 11631 June 26, 2023 at 6:59 pm
Last Post: Belacqua
  Is my argument against afterlife an equivocation fallacy? FlatAssembler 61 15029 June 20, 2023 at 5:59 pm
Last Post: BrianSoddingBoru4
  A simple argument against God Disagreeable 149 41098 December 29, 2022 at 11:59 am
Last Post: Mister Agenda
  My Almighty VS your argument against it Won2blv 43 11515 May 5, 2022 at 9:13 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  A "meta-argument" against all future arguments for God's existence ? R00tKiT 225 62701 April 17, 2022 at 2:11 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)