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Fine tuning argument assessed
#65
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed
(February 10, 2014 at 4:01 pm)hatsoff Wrote: I don't see how this follows. Fine-tuning proponents are usually pretty clear that for each constant there is a range of life-permitting values, any of which would do the job. But the range is small, relative to the range of all possible values.
In the discussions I can recall (and the beliefs I held when I was a theist), the argument from fine-tuning is that life would be impossible unless those values were in a very tight range, and that any deviation would make life impossible.

If that is the case, then the implication is that god cannot create life except under limited circumstances, which seems at odds with the idea that he created the universe and wrote the laws by which it works. It would imply that the universe was designed by someone else, and god found it.

If the argument is that there are other settings that would also work, then at the very least the fine-tuning argument is weakened. We no longer are talking about a frightfully-narrow band of settings that seem so improbable that they make a compelling case for a creator. It just means that out of the numerous possible universes and the possible life forms that could be produced, this is the one we wound up with.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould
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Messages In This Thread
Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - February 9, 2014 at 4:42 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Zen Badger - February 9, 2014 at 4:53 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Mr. Moncrieff - March 1, 2014 at 9:01 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Jacob(smooth) - February 9, 2014 at 4:57 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Heywood - March 8, 2014 at 7:02 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by WesOlsen - February 9, 2014 at 5:11 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Rayaan - February 9, 2014 at 5:18 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - February 9, 2014 at 5:27 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Jacob(smooth) - February 9, 2014 at 5:36 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Esquilax - February 9, 2014 at 5:51 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Rayaan - February 9, 2014 at 6:40 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Jacob(smooth) - February 9, 2014 at 1:04 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - February 9, 2014 at 7:26 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Esquilax - February 9, 2014 at 8:17 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 9, 2014 at 7:59 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - February 9, 2014 at 8:10 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 9, 2014 at 11:43 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Esquilax - February 9, 2014 at 11:49 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by WesOlsen - February 9, 2014 at 9:53 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 9, 2014 at 12:22 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Cato - February 9, 2014 at 1:29 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by LostLocke - February 9, 2014 at 10:10 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by FreeTony - February 9, 2014 at 10:36 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Tonus - February 9, 2014 at 11:48 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Whateverist - February 9, 2014 at 12:30 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by FreeTony - February 9, 2014 at 1:17 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Jacob(smooth) - February 9, 2014 at 1:35 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by FreeTony - February 9, 2014 at 1:56 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Jacob(smooth) - February 9, 2014 at 2:05 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Whateverist - February 9, 2014 at 2:44 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - February 9, 2014 at 2:10 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 9, 2014 at 2:46 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by WesOlsen - February 9, 2014 at 2:20 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 9, 2014 at 5:33 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Whateverist - February 9, 2014 at 2:48 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by FreeTony - February 9, 2014 at 3:03 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Whateverist - February 9, 2014 at 3:32 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Chas - February 9, 2014 at 3:33 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Jacob(smooth) - February 9, 2014 at 3:38 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Rayaan - February 9, 2014 at 5:11 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - February 9, 2014 at 6:08 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by FreeTony - February 9, 2014 at 5:29 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Rayaan - February 9, 2014 at 6:43 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Esquilax - February 10, 2014 at 12:46 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by FreeTony - February 9, 2014 at 7:24 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Whateverist - February 9, 2014 at 7:40 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 9, 2014 at 8:00 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by houseofcantor - February 10, 2014 at 11:06 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Whateverist - February 9, 2014 at 8:54 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - February 10, 2014 at 1:10 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Angrboda - February 10, 2014 at 1:12 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 10, 2014 at 11:46 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Tonus - February 10, 2014 at 11:53 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 10, 2014 at 1:55 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Tonus - February 10, 2014 at 2:01 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by downbeatplumb - February 10, 2014 at 2:42 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 10, 2014 at 3:43 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Mister Agenda - February 10, 2014 at 3:54 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 10, 2014 at 4:52 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Tonus - February 10, 2014 at 3:57 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by hatsoff - February 10, 2014 at 4:01 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Tonus - February 10, 2014 at 4:09 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by hatsoff - February 10, 2014 at 4:25 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Tonus - February 10, 2014 at 4:34 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Mothonis - February 22, 2014 at 1:05 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by hatsoff - February 10, 2014 at 3:56 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by hatsoff - February 10, 2014 at 3:23 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by MindForgedManacle - February 10, 2014 at 10:41 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Ryantology - February 10, 2014 at 11:53 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - February 10, 2014 at 12:47 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Mister Agenda - February 10, 2014 at 3:04 pm
Re: Fine tuning argument assessed - by StuW - February 10, 2014 at 4:28 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by WesOlsen - February 10, 2014 at 5:19 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Sword of Christ - February 10, 2014 at 8:29 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Angrboda - February 10, 2014 at 11:17 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by JuliaL - February 11, 2014 at 12:31 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by EvolutionKills - February 11, 2014 at 10:20 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Wyrd of Gawd - February 25, 2014 at 5:44 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Chas - February 26, 2014 at 1:36 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 1, 2014 at 2:57 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Chas - March 1, 2014 at 8:35 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 1, 2014 at 1:58 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Chas - March 2, 2014 at 1:10 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by houseofcantor - March 2, 2014 at 9:46 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by LostLocke - March 2, 2014 at 10:07 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Minimalist - February 11, 2014 at 12:56 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by WesOlsen - February 11, 2014 at 3:03 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Chas - February 22, 2014 at 12:35 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Minimalist - February 22, 2014 at 1:59 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by jesus_wept - February 26, 2014 at 4:50 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by max-greece - March 1, 2014 at 2:11 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 2, 2014 at 8:47 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by LostLocke - March 2, 2014 at 9:53 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 4, 2014 at 12:35 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by LostLocke - March 4, 2014 at 8:04 am
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 4, 2014 at 2:48 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by LostLocke - March 4, 2014 at 2:58 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by Chas - March 10, 2014 at 10:00 pm
RE: Fine tuning argument assessed - by houseofcantor - March 2, 2014 at 10:18 am
Fine tuning argument assessed - by Rampant.A.I. - March 10, 2014 at 10:35 pm

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