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Introducing The Universal Religion
#87
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion
(February 12, 2014 at 8:57 am)Esquilax Wrote: Leave aside the kind of intuitional sense that "from nothing, nothing comes," has, and actually examine it. Are you saying you know everything there is to know?

If the answer is no, how can you possibly claim that there is no case in which something comes from nothing? Especially when you then go on to claim that your god is eternal, which means he literally did come from nothing.

You are waaaay to pessimistic, Esquilax: we know that this principle doesn't hold microscopically even within our own universe! We have quantum indeterminacy, which generates events such as particle decays at apparently random times, vacuum fluctuations etc. But even in a hypothetical mechanistic and deterministic universe, an arrow of time separating cause and effect only arises as a statistical artifact if you have a state with many particles and low entropy. For example, in a simple mechanical system of say two or three particles acting with forces onto each other, there is no concept of direction of time, or even cause and effect. Case in point: If you have a simple solar system simulation of sun and earth without friction, you could never tell whether time runs forward or backwards. This only happens when you have a statistical ensemble which is not in thermal equilibrium (entropy not maximal).
Cause and effect are only ever about going from a less likely configuration of particles to a more likely one given certain constraints such as total energy. Transporting our intuition of such things which we get from living in a macroscopic world with a big energy source above us, to such things as "creation of universes" etc. is completely specious.
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Messages In This Thread
Introducing The Universal Religion - by jideoni charles - February 2, 2014 at 10:51 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by LostLocke - February 2, 2014 at 11:10 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Cato - February 2, 2014 at 11:13 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by houseofcantor - February 2, 2014 at 11:15 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Bad Wolf - February 2, 2014 at 11:26 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Esquilax - February 2, 2014 at 11:28 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Minimalist - February 2, 2014 at 11:32 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by BrokenQuill92 - February 2, 2014 at 11:40 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by LostLocke - February 2, 2014 at 11:55 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Cyberman - February 2, 2014 at 12:01 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by jideoni charles - February 2, 2014 at 1:08 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Cyberman - February 2, 2014 at 1:22 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Esquilax - February 2, 2014 at 1:18 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Cato - February 2, 2014 at 2:07 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Angrboda - February 2, 2014 at 4:15 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by FlyingNarwhal - February 2, 2014 at 5:40 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Cato - February 2, 2014 at 5:55 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by LostLocke - February 3, 2014 at 10:45 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Ryantology - February 2, 2014 at 6:05 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Faith No More - February 3, 2014 at 11:05 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Jacob(smooth) - February 3, 2014 at 11:53 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Alex K - February 3, 2014 at 12:02 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Cato - February 3, 2014 at 1:46 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by jideoni charles - February 4, 2014 at 2:12 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Alex K - February 4, 2014 at 2:51 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Napoléon - February 4, 2014 at 4:39 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by jideoni charles - February 4, 2014 at 12:52 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Esquilax - February 4, 2014 at 12:54 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by FlyingNarwhal - February 4, 2014 at 6:47 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Jacob(smooth) - February 4, 2014 at 6:50 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by FlyingNarwhal - February 9, 2014 at 6:26 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Jacob(smooth) - February 10, 2014 at 6:32 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Jacob(smooth) - February 4, 2014 at 1:16 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Cyberman - February 4, 2014 at 3:15 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Cyberman - February 4, 2014 at 6:56 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Jacob(smooth) - February 4, 2014 at 7:05 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Esquilax - February 5, 2014 at 12:13 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Sword of Christ - February 7, 2014 at 12:21 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Bad Wolf - February 7, 2014 at 12:29 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by jideoni charles - February 7, 2014 at 1:43 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Cyberman - February 9, 2014 at 6:13 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Faith No More - February 7, 2014 at 1:48 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by SteelCurtain - February 7, 2014 at 2:15 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Sword of Christ - February 9, 2014 at 7:37 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by jideoni charles - February 10, 2014 at 2:15 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Alex K - February 10, 2014 at 8:45 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by EvolutionKills - February 10, 2014 at 5:49 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Sword of Christ - February 10, 2014 at 6:40 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by EvolutionKills - February 10, 2014 at 7:07 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Cyberman - February 10, 2014 at 12:47 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Sword of Christ - February 10, 2014 at 1:25 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by EvolutionKills - February 11, 2014 at 1:07 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Sword of Christ - February 11, 2014 at 7:22 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Alex K - February 11, 2014 at 8:10 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Sword of Christ - February 11, 2014 at 8:46 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Esquilax - February 11, 2014 at 8:56 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Ben Davis - February 11, 2014 at 9:07 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Sword of Christ - February 11, 2014 at 4:02 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Angrboda - February 11, 2014 at 4:40 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Sword of Christ - February 11, 2014 at 4:48 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Alex K - February 11, 2014 at 4:59 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Sword of Christ - February 11, 2014 at 5:18 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Tonus - February 12, 2014 at 7:35 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Cyberman - February 14, 2014 at 11:03 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Esquilax - February 11, 2014 at 8:23 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Tonus - February 11, 2014 at 9:48 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by EvolutionKills - February 11, 2014 at 11:05 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Cyberman - February 14, 2014 at 10:38 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by jideoni charles - February 10, 2014 at 11:45 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Alex K - February 10, 2014 at 4:50 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Jacob(smooth) - February 10, 2014 at 4:59 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Tonus - February 10, 2014 at 11:52 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Angrboda - February 11, 2014 at 12:10 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by SteelCurtain - February 11, 2014 at 12:30 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Alex K - February 11, 2014 at 2:31 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Alex K - February 11, 2014 at 9:00 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Bad Wolf - February 11, 2014 at 9:53 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Alex K - February 11, 2014 at 5:31 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Sword of Christ - February 11, 2014 at 6:01 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Angrboda - February 12, 2014 at 1:40 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Cato - February 12, 2014 at 7:17 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by jideoni charles - February 11, 2014 at 5:31 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Alex K - February 11, 2014 at 5:35 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Alex K - February 12, 2014 at 3:13 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Sword of Christ - February 12, 2014 at 8:34 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Alex K - February 12, 2014 at 8:42 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Sword of Christ - February 12, 2014 at 9:28 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Esquilax - February 12, 2014 at 9:33 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Sword of Christ - February 12, 2014 at 9:41 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Esquilax - February 12, 2014 at 9:50 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by LostLocke - February 12, 2014 at 9:35 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by EvolutionKills - February 12, 2014 at 9:46 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Alex K - February 12, 2014 at 9:58 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Esquilax - February 12, 2014 at 8:57 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Alex K - February 12, 2014 at 9:04 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Angrboda - February 12, 2014 at 9:36 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Napoléon - February 12, 2014 at 11:47 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Alex K - February 12, 2014 at 12:30 pm
Introducing The Universal Religion - by Rampant.A.I. - February 12, 2014 at 12:09 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Sword of Christ - February 12, 2014 at 1:21 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by jideoni charles - February 13, 2014 at 8:43 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Kayenneh - February 13, 2014 at 8:51 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by jideoni charles - February 14, 2014 at 8:50 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Tonus - February 14, 2014 at 8:54 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by jideoni charles - February 14, 2014 at 9:02 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Tonus - February 14, 2014 at 9:03 am
Introducing The Universal Religion - by Rampant.A.I. - February 14, 2014 at 10:39 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Bad Wolf - February 15, 2014 at 8:43 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Napoléon - February 15, 2014 at 10:08 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Bad Wolf - February 15, 2014 at 10:27 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Sword of Christ - February 17, 2014 at 9:53 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Angrboda - February 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Bad Wolf - February 17, 2014 at 9:57 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Sword of Christ - February 17, 2014 at 1:09 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Bad Wolf - February 17, 2014 at 1:47 pm
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Sword of Christ - February 19, 2014 at 8:47 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Bad Wolf - February 19, 2014 at 11:38 am
RE: Introducing The Universal Religion - by Cyberman - February 19, 2014 at 9:34 pm
Introducing The Universal Religion - by Rampant.A.I. - February 19, 2014 at 10:05 pm

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