Introducing The Universal Religion

[Alex K]

Stop right there. First of all you don't know that it had a beginning.

The universe is 13.7 billion years old it has an age it had a point of creation. Yes there may well be other universes but they all had a beginning as well so that's moot.

It's like talking to a wall. No, no and no. We can extrapolate the dynamics of the universe back to a point where the universe is very hot, and where probably something like cosmic inflation happens (the evidence for this being the flatness, isotropy of the CMB, and scaling laws of fluctuations), and this means that we don't know what was before. This point in our timeline is not the beginning in the sense you would like to have it.

Even if it had a clear temporal beginning

It did if it has a definite age or time in which it existed. No-one puts the age of the universe at infinity.

The usual 13.7 billion years are what you get when you extrapolate back to the classical singularity, which does not exist. At this point, the universe is a hot soup of all the particles popping in and out of existence in a thermal bath. We cannot look any further back beyond e.g. inflation.

this does not mean that something beyond the universe exists eternally

Something will have to be eternal in itself and it isn't this universe if it has a definite age and so has an actual starting point. If something starts to happen then something else made it start to happen.

I am talking to a wall. Have you even tried to read and comprehend what I have written above about the concepts of "starting", and "happening" and their dependence on a concept of time?

: the word "eternal" isn't even defined in the slightest sense if you don't have a timeline independent of what you call our universe.

God exists outside and beyond time as he is eternal without a starting point or an end point, this would be necessary to cause time to begin to exist.

Eternal and beyond time. I get it, you are telling me your concept of god is inconsistent and therefore logically impossible. Good to know,really. But it explains why you are unable to form a coherent argument.

If you have one, then the Big Bang isn't the beginning of that timeline and your argument has gone away.

The big bang is where God causes space/time to exist when it otherwise would not exist. Creation out of nothing or ex nihilo. If the the theory fits the facts.

Wow, it is like talking to a wall indeed. Read again what I have written above and try to understand it.

God isn't a concept that can't be supported by logic and reason whether or not you disagree with the logic.

You are pretty desperate. You are trying to give an argument why you believe in god, and in order for your logic to work you need to claim that your god is not subject to logic. Why don't you just admit that you don't have an argument.

I've said it ten times now and I'll tell you again: causality is a meaninless concept outside a universe with a timelike dimension and low entropy

What you just said there is meaningless from what I can tell. Using words like low entropy doesn't help you in this context. Any scientific term you want to use is confined to description of a process that occurs within the universe as we observe it. The universe as we observe it exists for some other reason and there are no scientific terms for it.

Haha, did you just try to turn the table on me and use my argument against me? Amusing, but you'll have to do better in order to not look foolish:

So I explained to you that the concepts and words which you use in your argument are meaningless for a certain reason. Therefore, you don't have an argument. Now you are trying to retort by claiming that because they are meaningless, you are justified to use them in an argument, because if they are meaningless, you can do whatever you want? That works for poetry, but not for arguments.