The Modal Ontological Argument - Without Modal Logic

[Darkstar]

For what, exactly? The falsity of a non-falsifiable hypothesis? Do you have any evidence other than "metaphysical possibility" that independent minds can exist?

why exactly is your hypothesis non-falsifiable? that just seems like an arbitrary statement to me.

I meant yours.

and do you even know what you're asking? "do you have any evidence for the possibility of brain independent minds other than their possibility?"

You said that particles can metaphysically go faster than light speed. The laws of nature beg to differ.

that's a false analogy and your point is irrelevant. as you said it's "technically true" it is possible for mind to exist independent of the brain, so i think it's time to move past this "mind can't exist apart from brain" point. it's dead and buried so move on.

I should have said that it is technically true that we don't know it isn't possible; I don't know if the laws of physics could support such a concept. Nonetheless, I will leave this corpse where you buried it.

i don't know what you mean by "actually possible." if it is physically impossible for a particle to move faster than light, then it couldn't happen in this universe so long as that physical law remained constant. but as i said before, physical laws aren't necessary. they can be different.

The fact that even axiomatic physical laws aren't necessary is why I said there may not be any necessary truths.

there is no equivalence between mind and electrical impulses. as i'm sure you already know, electrical impulses can exist without mind

But not the other way around.

and electrical impulses don't share properties with mind. there is a correlation, not an equivalence so the mind can't reduce to energy either.

But we can reduce A.I to energy, along with whatever physical hardware is is programmed onto. So, why not the brain? Neither a monist nor dualist perspective is metaphysically impossible, if I understand your argument correctly. But...I think we were burying this point, yes?

why? is it logically absurd for the mind to create something that resembles what is physical? i don't think so. it is very possible for a mind to create concepts as well as a mind that receives information that it thinks is real.

Quite. But if you are suggesting that said things aren't actually real, and only come from our perceptions, then I feel like we are going in the general direction of the Brain in a vat scenario.

Actually, I said it only causes hallucinations to make you think you see a cheeseburger.

then it is not a cheeseburger.

You got me.

Additionally, it is not omnipotent, merely non-contingent.

that doesn't work. it has to have some property that makes it so it can't be contingent. in order for it to be non-contingent and exist it must be necessary. if it is necessary then it can't be destroyed. if it can't be destroyed, it is omnipotent.

How about any mind? Can a mind be destroyed? On the existence of what is a mind contingent? If not the brain, then...? By non-contingent, do you necessarily mean that it cannot be destroyed? I was under the assumption that it simply referred to something that came to be/always existed without something else influencing it to come about. So if I say this "cheeseburger" is non-contingent, that is false; in the sense that its existence is contingent on it not being hypothetically destroyed?

you are the one claiming uncertainty, not me. you are the one choosing solipsism alternatively, not me. i take monotheistic idealism rather than solipsism.

Technically, solipsism cannot be disproven. Maybe I haven't read enough about it, but it doesn't look like the idea that everything is merely a product of your mind, and...the idea that everything is merely a product of your mind, are all that different.

Modern Idealists, on the other hand, believe that the mind and its thoughts are the only true things that exist.

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On this scale, solipsism can be classed as idealism. Thoughts and concepts are all that exist, and furthermore, only the solipsist's own thoughts and consciousness exist. The so-called "reality" is nothing more than an idea that the solipsist has (perhaps unconsciously) created.