What deism has done for the world

[discipulus]

But to say that these wicked men and women, were somehow acting in accordance with Christ's teachings and are representative of a Christian is simply dishonest.

It does call into question the transformative power of the Bible and of Christianity. People who spend their lives surrounded by followers of Christ and by his teachings are unable or unwilling to stop from committing a truly horrific act. And there are many cases where both congregation members and church hierarchy either ignored what was happening or dealt with it by moving the offenders from one area to another, where they were able to continue to harm innocent children.

You can't just say "well they were not really Christians" and dismiss the problem that easily. These are not always just isolated cases; people are harming children either by direct action or by deliberate inaction. When you include the ones who facilitated the abuse, there are many more crimes involved by many more people who will almost certainly remain in the church.

I never have stated that these perpetrators were not really Christians. So that is really a strawman.

What I said was that these actions of a few people (few in relation to the total number of Christians existing in the world today) are not to be consider as either representative of or exemplifications of them that adhere to the central tenets of Christianity.

What you are saying is akin to a Christian arguing that the actions of many notorious men and women who have been atheists are representative of and exemplifications of atheists in general. This is fallacious.

If Christianity taught that men and women should molest young children under their charge and then conceal the acts, then you would have a point.

As it stands, these acts are positive testimony to the depravity of man, not the lack of transformative power of God. For God's transforming power is manifested in them that are willing to be transformed by it.

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What a surprise, Disciplus' position boils down to cherry picking and the No True Scotsman fallacy.

Anyone didn't see that coming?

Some atheists are keen on charging others with committing fallacies. But since I never said that these perpetrators were not really Christians, then the charge is demonstrably without merit.

With regards to one's salvation, I cannot judge. I know not what has transpired within their heart and souls.

I can judge them by their works however, for their works are clearly perceived by all. The simple truth is that they were not acting in accordance with the teachings of Him whose name they desire to be called by.

If this renders your argument void, then you need to come up with something better.

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What a surprise, Disciplus' position boils down to cherry picking and the No True Scotsman fallacy.

Anyone didn't see that coming?

Yeah, color me surprised.

I'm still wondering what happened to this, posted by Disciplus on Feb. 26:

"DeistPaladin I perceive you, more so than anyone else here that I have talked with, have the ability to present your arguments clearly and concisely. I also think you make some points that are worthy of a thoughtful response.

Is there a way that we can have a formal debate here on this forum just between you and I for all to view? If so I would like to extend a cordial invitation to you to debate on whether or not the four gospels constitute a reliable biography of Jesus of Nazareth. Think over the matter and let me know what you think.

Thank you for considering this."

Oh, right -- DeistPaladin preemptively (and masterfully) laid waste to the "debate" before it could even get going.

Where did this laying waste take place?

As far as I can tell, he still has not even addressed the debate topic I have proposed upwards of ten times already.

The more I interact with you all, the more my convictions are reaffirmed. Many of you are angry and bitter and rely not on rational argument, but cynicism, sarcasm and a host of other ineffectual methods which reveal your utter lack of justification for your views.

I am still waiting for someone here to demonstrate to me the contributions of atheism to the children of the world's nations. All the while I am asking this, Christians at this very moment throughout the world are giving their time effort money and even their lives in the service of the helpless.

You ask for evidence but do not accept its conclusions.

Why?