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Pull up a chair
RE: Pull up a chair
(March 17, 2014 at 5:52 pm)discipulus Wrote: What is faith?
Paul defines faith as the "assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1, ASV). This is often used to denote belief with no evidence, but that does not seem to be right meaning of the word. We often use the word "faith" as a synonym for "trust." We differentiate between faith and "blind faith." Therefore, faith should involve something we know for certain, unlike blind faith.

This fits the Biblical narrative. Paul himself came to know the truth when Jesus appeared to him on the road to Damascus. If this was true, then Paul's faith in any of Jesus' promises was based on his belief that Jesus was real, which was based on his direct experience with Jesus.

Jesus chided Thomas for doubting that he had been resurrected, telling him "blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." (John 20:29). And despite this, he did allow Thomas to see him and to put his fingers through the wounds in his hands and side. Judging by his reaction, this experience strengthened Thomas' faith.

Some Christians will tell us that if god were to reveal himself today, that this would deny us free will because we would have no choice to believe. But there is nothing in the Bible that indicates that this is a problem. Paul states that creation is such clear proof of god's existence that to deny him is inexcusable. (Romans 1:18-21) God's intervention in human affairs was common in the OT and NT, yet this is not cause for alarm.

Knowing that god exists, if he makes it plain, would certainly not require faith. Believing that he would do what he proposed would require faith as defined by Paul-- a conviction of things not seen (since they are promises of future action). But believing in god should not be a matter of faith; if he was able to make himself known directly and physically to people for thousands of years, he can do so now without issue. That he does not do so is not a matter of faith, and I don't think we should have faith in his existence without such a clear and obvious demonstration.

Do atheists display faith? As defined above, yes, I do. I trust in some people to live up to their word if they have shown a habit of being trustworthy. So if a particular person says he is going to the movies on Saturday and will pick me up at noon, I have faith that this will happen. If a less trustworthy person offers the same, my faith may not be as strong in his promise. If a fictional character makes general promises to everyone (or to no one in particular) I am unlikely to have any faith in him at all.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould
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Messages In This Thread
Pull up a chair - by discipulus - March 17, 2014 at 5:52 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by FreeTony - March 17, 2014 at 5:57 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by discipulus - March 17, 2014 at 6:10 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by My imaginary friend is GOD - March 17, 2014 at 6:18 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by discipulus - March 17, 2014 at 6:24 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by LastPoet - March 17, 2014 at 6:33 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by discipulus - March 17, 2014 at 6:36 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by LastPoet - March 17, 2014 at 6:41 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by downbeatplumb - March 17, 2014 at 5:58 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Whateverist - March 17, 2014 at 8:29 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Alex K - March 17, 2014 at 5:59 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Marsellus Wallace - March 17, 2014 at 6:00 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by My imaginary friend is GOD - March 17, 2014 at 6:02 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Doubting Thomas - March 17, 2014 at 6:03 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Alex K - March 17, 2014 at 6:04 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Marsellus Wallace - March 17, 2014 at 6:06 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Alex K - March 17, 2014 at 6:08 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Phatt Matt s - March 17, 2014 at 6:13 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by downbeatplumb - March 17, 2014 at 6:18 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Phatt Matt s - March 17, 2014 at 6:20 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Alex K - March 17, 2014 at 6:23 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Minimalist - March 17, 2014 at 6:25 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Alex K - March 17, 2014 at 6:27 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by discipulus - March 17, 2014 at 6:30 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Alex K - March 17, 2014 at 6:33 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Neo-Scholastic - March 17, 2014 at 6:30 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Mudhammam - March 18, 2014 at 10:39 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Alex K - March 17, 2014 at 6:42 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by LastPoet - March 17, 2014 at 6:45 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by discipulus - March 17, 2014 at 6:45 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Alex K - March 18, 2014 at 1:23 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Neo-Scholastic - March 17, 2014 at 6:46 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Cinjin - March 17, 2014 at 6:48 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by discipulus - March 17, 2014 at 6:52 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Cinjin - March 17, 2014 at 6:53 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by LastPoet - March 17, 2014 at 6:49 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by discipulus - March 17, 2014 at 6:53 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by LastPoet - March 17, 2014 at 7:01 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by discipulus - March 17, 2014 at 7:02 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by downbeatplumb - March 17, 2014 at 6:58 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by discipulus - March 17, 2014 at 6:59 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by downbeatplumb - March 17, 2014 at 7:04 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by discipulus - March 17, 2014 at 7:07 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Cinjin - March 17, 2014 at 7:10 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by discipulus - March 17, 2014 at 7:15 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Neo-Scholastic - March 17, 2014 at 7:16 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by downbeatplumb - March 17, 2014 at 7:13 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by discipulus - March 17, 2014 at 7:16 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by LastPoet - March 17, 2014 at 7:04 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by LastPoet - March 17, 2014 at 7:06 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by shep - March 17, 2014 at 7:07 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by discipulus - March 17, 2014 at 7:12 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by downbeatplumb - March 17, 2014 at 7:16 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by discipulus - March 17, 2014 at 7:22 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Assimilate - March 17, 2014 at 7:32 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by discipulus - March 17, 2014 at 7:35 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Assimilate - March 17, 2014 at 7:49 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Tonus - March 18, 2014 at 9:42 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Fidel_Castronaut - March 18, 2014 at 9:51 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by downbeatplumb - March 18, 2014 at 2:20 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Neo-Scholastic - March 17, 2014 at 7:07 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Jacob(smooth) - March 17, 2014 at 7:22 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by LastPoet - March 17, 2014 at 7:39 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by pocaracas - March 17, 2014 at 8:05 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by discipulus - March 17, 2014 at 8:13 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Fidel_Castronaut - March 18, 2014 at 9:27 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by professor - March 17, 2014 at 8:12 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by truthBtold - March 17, 2014 at 9:15 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by pocaracas - March 17, 2014 at 8:16 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by discipulus - March 17, 2014 at 8:23 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by pocaracas - March 18, 2014 at 4:48 am
Pull up a chair - by Rampant.A.I. - March 17, 2014 at 8:29 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by JuliaL - March 17, 2014 at 8:35 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Whateverist - March 17, 2014 at 8:51 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Jackalope - March 17, 2014 at 8:57 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by fr0d0 - March 17, 2014 at 9:13 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Jackalope - March 18, 2014 at 1:12 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by fr0d0 - March 18, 2014 at 3:40 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by heathendegenerate - March 18, 2014 at 12:46 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Jacob(smooth) - March 18, 2014 at 3:40 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by LastPoet - March 18, 2014 at 3:46 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by rexbeccarox - March 18, 2014 at 3:46 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by max-greece - March 18, 2014 at 4:13 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by DarkHorse - March 18, 2014 at 6:31 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Esquilax - March 18, 2014 at 4:52 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Whateverist - March 18, 2014 at 5:21 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Alex K - March 18, 2014 at 5:30 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Zen Badger - March 18, 2014 at 5:02 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by fr0d0 - March 18, 2014 at 5:03 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Zen Badger - March 18, 2014 at 5:08 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Alex K - March 18, 2014 at 5:17 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Esquilax - March 18, 2014 at 6:46 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by fr0d0 - March 18, 2014 at 8:47 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Marsellus Wallace - March 18, 2014 at 8:54 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Esquilax - March 18, 2014 at 9:35 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by jesus_wept - March 18, 2014 at 5:19 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by pocaracas - March 18, 2014 at 5:45 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Alex K - March 18, 2014 at 5:53 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Whateverist - March 18, 2014 at 5:47 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Whateverist - March 18, 2014 at 5:57 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Alex K - March 18, 2014 at 6:02 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by pocaracas - March 18, 2014 at 6:07 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Marsellus Wallace - March 18, 2014 at 5:58 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Whateverist - March 18, 2014 at 6:06 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Alex K - March 18, 2014 at 6:12 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by pocaracas - March 18, 2014 at 6:20 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Alex K - March 18, 2014 at 6:34 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Neo-Scholastic - March 18, 2014 at 9:02 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by max-greece - March 18, 2014 at 9:15 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Whateverist - March 18, 2014 at 9:34 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Whateverist - March 18, 2014 at 6:09 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by KichigaiNeko - March 18, 2014 at 6:56 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Alex K - March 18, 2014 at 7:04 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by shep - March 18, 2014 at 9:18 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Tonus - March 18, 2014 at 9:32 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by LastPoet - March 18, 2014 at 9:55 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Esquilax - March 18, 2014 at 10:02 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Alex K - March 18, 2014 at 10:04 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Tonus - March 18, 2014 at 10:17 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Esquilax - March 18, 2014 at 10:24 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by FreeTony - March 18, 2014 at 10:22 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Alex K - March 18, 2014 at 10:23 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Mudhammam - March 18, 2014 at 10:25 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by discipulus - March 18, 2014 at 5:46 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by pocaracas - March 18, 2014 at 6:24 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Mudhammam - March 18, 2014 at 8:11 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by FreeTony - March 18, 2014 at 10:29 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Silver - March 18, 2014 at 11:49 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Fromper - March 18, 2014 at 12:19 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Alex K - March 18, 2014 at 12:27 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by fr0d0 - March 18, 2014 at 4:51 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Neo-Scholastic - March 18, 2014 at 8:38 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Mudhammam - March 18, 2014 at 10:16 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Whateverist - March 18, 2014 at 11:20 pm
Pull up a chair - by Rampant.A.I. - March 18, 2014 at 9:29 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Neo-Scholastic - March 18, 2014 at 10:19 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Mudhammam - March 18, 2014 at 10:26 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Bad Writer - March 18, 2014 at 10:37 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Mudhammam - March 18, 2014 at 10:42 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Chas - March 18, 2014 at 11:02 pm
Pull up a chair - by Rampant.A.I. - March 18, 2014 at 10:19 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Neo-Scholastic - March 19, 2014 at 11:53 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by max-greece - March 19, 2014 at 1:07 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Whateverist - March 20, 2014 at 1:35 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 20, 2014 at 3:34 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by pocaracas - March 19, 2014 at 12:19 pm
Pull up a chair - by Rampant.A.I. - March 19, 2014 at 12:41 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Neo-Scholastic - March 19, 2014 at 12:46 pm
Pull up a chair - by Rampant.A.I. - March 19, 2014 at 12:54 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by Fromper - March 19, 2014 at 1:00 pm
RE: Pull up a chair - by fr0d0 - March 20, 2014 at 3:08 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by DarkHorse - March 20, 2014 at 3:48 am
Pull up a chair - by Rampant.A.I. - March 20, 2014 at 4:04 am
RE: Pull up a chair - by Neo-Scholastic - March 20, 2014 at 11:03 am

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