So U think Vegan is healthy?

[Aractus]

There's a lot of processed soy crap out there. Prove that unprocessed soy, like edamame, is poison.

Raw soy is toxic to all carnivores and omnivores. It's only non-toxic to herbivores.

Proof: The Health Dangers of Soy by Dr. Joseph Mercola

Now, since we know soy is toxic the onus of proof on whether processed soy is "safe to eat in moderate amounts" is on the one making the claim, and so far it has not been proven.

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Kind of a slippery slope suggesting that you need meat to gain muscle huh? Are you suggesting people haven't gained muscle on vegan diets or there are no vegan athletes? If your answer is no then I'm just going to outright call you wrong and ignorant.

I'm not even going to bother dignifying that with an answer since you've obviously made a straw man.

Which didn't prove that you needed meat since people can live without it, but continue...

Since you're the one making that claim, the onus of proof is on you. Show me vegan societies anywhere in the world that have reproduced and thrived on a vegan diet? The average length of time a person in the USA is on a vegetarian diet is 9 years (the figure from psychology today). Health problems from deficiencies can take 20 years to develop.

There are vegans that took oral B12 supplements and came to a point where their doctors told them the only way that they can continue their vegan diets is with intravenous B12, administered twice a year or so. That's why a lot of vegans that know about this are unable to tell you which B12 supplement to take to avoid B12 deficiency because the tablets have been proven not to work for everyone; just like how we have no drugs whatsoever that are effective for managing obesity - and in fact the drugs that have been on the market previously have been withdrawn.

There is no oral B12 supplement that has been proven can work long term for vegans.

Which is why I suggested a balanced diet, there are drawbacks to every diet you try. If you exclusively ate meat or mostly ate meat you'd have horrible problems if not worse problems that if you were vegan or mostly vegan. And while a balanced diet is the best we can do currently, can we at least agree that meat is far from the most needed food group.

Eliminating an entire food group (or two, counting dairy separately) is not a balanced diet. Furthermore your comparison is uneven: meat is one food group out of five, and someone who eats only meat is eliminating four out of the five food groups. A vegan is eliminating two entire food groups: meat and dairy, that is not balanced. A paleo eliminates grain entirely, that also may not be balanced.

Why do you assume I haven't? What are you even saying I'm getting wrong. I've been pretty universal about this whole thing and even saying we should have a balanced diet. And I'll even go as far to say getting rid of meat is not likely any time soon.

No, anything you have read is probably propaganda. There's an awful lot of it out there - there is the material that says we could feed the whole world with more grain (that's not true and it's been proven), there's material that says meat is unhealthy - that's also not true - the only thing that is true, that has been proven scientifically is that overconsumption of red meat is unhealthy, but if you only eat fish and chicken then there's no proven amount that's bad for you.

I was going to mention eggs, cheese, beans, tofu, yogurt and nuts to name a few.

Most of the world can't eat dairy. Eggs contain protein and cholesterol, so if you consume too much you may be consuming too much cholesterol so they can't be your only source of protein. Tofu is processed soy and contains all the antitoxins, so it's a very bad idea to over consume it or to use it as a substitute for meat.

Lactose intolerance is the norm and lactose persistence is the mutated gene. So for people like me, dairy is great. But for most people, who can't metabolize lactose, you'll get sick just like most adult cats would (if you have an adult cat that you know has lactose persistence you can give it plenty of milk though just like humans).

Many people have other food sensitivities. Some people can't eat gluten, some people can't eat nuts, some people can't eat foods containing soy. And there are yet others too including fish and eggs.

We're not in disagreement about what has more protein, I think you're kind of missing the point of my post. Let me give you a hypothetical. If we were able to get our protein in the same way as we do with meat, could you ween yourself from meat someday? From what I've been reading into, we will likely have the ability to grow meat in the lab with simple cells or some other modified way.

Let me give you a hypothetical: it's been proven that plant-based diets lower cholesterol. Cholesterol deficiency causes anxiety, depression, anger and aggression. How does a vegan go about correcting a dangerously low cholesterol level?

Nobody ever said two similar foods were the same, that's your straw man.

You claimed that animal products are not the only source of high quality protein, I proved otherwise. Furthermore there are countless examples, as in my OP, of people who could not build muscle on fully vegan diets no matter what they did or what supplements they took.