So U think Vegan is healthy?

[MJ the Skeptical]

A list of your bullshit personal attacks:

• That's not an advocation of veganism, you're an idiot.

You equated my position with veganism several times, otherwise why bring up such irrelevance about it? I was talking about something very specific and you made a mountain out of a mole-hill. Maybe I could have worded it better to avoid confusion so sorry if I was ambiguous or vague but there's hardly a disagreement from us other than some details.

Really? Let's count the straw men in your last post then shall we?

You cry straw man when you aren't even addressing the ones you made, that's why you've been intellectually dishonest with me. I'm critically examining myself and the things you consider straw man's and addressing them, meanwhile you haven't addressed one of them. I even ask you if we as humans can't be allergic to meat, because I'm open to learn. You clearly had a misconception of me and it shows in your opening replies.

I think you completely missed the point of what I said, but I'm not surprised. If you think someone who eats mostly meat is better off than someone who eats mostly vegetarian / vegan / whatever label, that's fine, you're entitled to your stupid opinion. I don't know how much we can agree on before you just knock it off. How you can still argue with me after I advocate a balanced diet is beyond reasonable.

Mostly meat vs. Mostly green (we'll just call it that)

I genuinely want to know the answer from your opinion, it's not a straw man.

If you think meat is the most important food group then there's really no helping you here.

...Not a straw man.

You said we "couldn't agree" in your last reply on this particular sub-topic.

Do you have any empathy for other animals or no? how could any empathetic, altruistic human being possibly be against properly synthesized food if we could save billions of animals that get killed every year. I will freely admit it's not viable yet, but why would you not at least be in favor of it unless you're just a cold-hearted speciesist. Maybe you are a speciesist seeing as how you're a Christian.

A question + another question/guess = straw man. Got it.

I'm sure you're a nice guy, but, religious people like you love to distort the actual facts. The truth of the matter is, you argued against nobody, you thought I was a vegan the whole time. You made yourself look bad, I don't need to be new to recognize that either.

You're not a nice guy then? that's a straw man?

Really? people can't get allergic to meat? news to me, sounds like bullshit but you may be right.

Since you like posting straw men so much I'll answer them for you:

Are you gonna duck the question again? Can people be allergic to meat or not? it was not as straw man, it's an inquiry.

1. There's no such thing as "mostly vegan". You're using the term as if it means "plant based diet with some meat".

Sure, why not. Another term might be an Opportunistic Meat-eater.

2. All major food groups are important, but the least important is dairy since most people can't eat it.

I never imply any food groups aren't important so this is more irrelevance.

3. "If we could save animals..." etc is an emotional argument.

It's also an environmental and economic concern seeing as how we wouldn't be able to survive without other animals other than just for eating them. And we would also save quite a bit of money on the force feeding and constant breeding that goes on. It's far more than just emotional, even though that is a good enough reason by itself.

I agree with environmental concerns coming well before emotional concerns.

They're not mutually exclusive.

Two things I see as ridiculous is 1. the UN not allowing Japan to hunt non-endangered marine life whilst allowing the hunting of critically endangered species

You'd have to be more specific on "Non-endangered" since you could be close to endangered or be projected to be endangered. Perhaps there's more there that hasn't been fully looking into or looked at objectively. Especially if you're talking about Japan with their notoriously brutal reign over the pacific ocean. All that aside, lots of marine lifeforms are closing in on extinction in the ocean because of how shitty we take care of it. I'd say the ocean can't get enough protecting and that's not an emotional or environmental opinion, it's both.

2. the EU in 2009 putting a ban on Canadian Seal products when seals are like rabbits or roos in Australia - a pest species that needs annual culling for the good of biodiversity.

And we're a pest to lots of other animals, just a matter of perspective.

But then again, one would have to have empathy first to understand.

Pasture is a much more environmentally friendly use of land compared to agriculture. If you're going to make meat artificially then what use would you have in mind for farmland used for pasture? How are you going to grow the meat in an environmentally friendly way? Cows and Sheep eat the grass straight out of the ground, Pigs are fed primarily spoiled fruit and veg, so how are you going to grow meat in a way as environmentally friendly as pasture-fed?

I already conceded it's not viable yet. End of discussion there.

4. I never called you a vegan. I have not distorted the facts and I've provided many academic references whereas you have provided zero.

Academic papers for what? Mostly meat diet vs. Mostly veggie/green/vegan/etc. diet?

Here's what you originally posted to fr0d0:
[i]A religious person crying unfounded claim, oh the irony. Can you not get protein from beans and other alternatives like soy? Your lack of imagination or education on nutrition is not an unfounded assertion by me.

Then you posted this at me:

You're still full of shit, meat is not the one and only good source of protein.

And then this:

Kind of a slippery slope suggesting that you need meat to gain muscle huh? Are you suggesting people haven't gained muscle on vegan diets or there are no vegan athletes? If your answer is no then I'm just going to outright call you wrong and ignorant.

Where's your post to give my posts their context...

There's still no problem with my posts, I already covered this yesterday.

You came into a thread in which the primary topic is long-term veganism

So what, I went a different direction. Sue me.

you started making claims that are unsubstantiated for long-term veganism without providing any sources.

So a mostly meat diet is better than a mostly green or veggie diet? It's a serious question, just answer it or move on.

I made no assumptions about your diet, all I did was respond to your claims.

Which made you go on irrelevant tirades.

You don't have to be vegan to claim that vegan diets are healthy, etc.

Mostly vegan wouldn't be truly vegan though right, so that was just a slip up in terminology from me. We can use any label you want.

In fact until recently as I said in the original post I believed that proper vegan diets are healthy, and I now believe it's been proven to me that this isn't true for everyone - my position is right there in the OP.

That's fine. I never disagreed with you.

5. I'm calling bullshit on you. Whatever way I answer that you're going to claim I'm making a straw man

Actually I do care about what someone says to me, but this^ is another actual straw man, ironically enough.

so I'll simply state what I know to be the facts: some people have allergies to certain foods, eg fish, but I've never heard of anybody being allergic to all meats at the same time

So there are people that can be allergic to meat, even if it's just some kinds of meat. Thanks for finally answering.

just as I've never heard of anybody being allergic to all grains at the same time. If you believe that some people are allergic to all meat then start providing references.

I never said all meat. I said there are people who are allergic to meat. Even if it's just one kind of meat, that's still an allergic reaction to the generic word for flesh called meat.