what are we supposed to say again when christians ask us where we get our morality?

[max-greece]

You are wrong. The atheist claim being presented is that morality is a product of evolution. When pressed to explain the response is usually that the adaptation of our species is a disposition to empathy which gives us a reproductive advantage. Where is the morality in that? Sure we form complex social structures. That also is an evolved ability.

The "morality evolved" response is trivial. What it is basically saying is that any behavior that confers a reproductive advantage to the species as a whole is moral by definition. My point is that the same can be said about cockroach survival instincts.Very often, in fact most of the time, moral behaviors require that someone go against their natural instincts. In other words, a person must also apply reason, defer to authorities, or otherwise appeal to something beyond the evolutionary mandates of human nature. Thus evolved dispositions cannot serve as an adequate foundation for morality.

I cannot decide if you are simply not getting it or trying to put up a straw-man you can easily knock down.

Why are you talking about empathy in isolation? Why are you ignoring the other genetic traits of reciprocation and a sense of fairness? Why are you equating this directly with breeding success? Why are you ignoring the choice element in implementing empathy in your comparison with the cockroach?

Once again then:

We are intelligent social creatures. We have evolved to strive to work together and this carries biological advantage. The tools we inherit to do this include empathy, reciprocation and a sense of fairness.

From this we have developed societies with complex moral systems - some better, some worse. Societies with deeply flawed rigid moral systems don't survive long term and are replaced. Societies with moral systems that allow development tend to do better. We celebrate those that push the boundaries and force society to confront its "unfairness" (think Wiliiam Wilberforce, Rossa Parks and so on).

Our complex moral systems are unique to us. Our initial drivers (empathy, reciprocation and fairness) are not. We see examples of the drivers in other species (dolphins saving drowning people, elephants helping herds of wildebeest in distress, Stumpy the killer whale etc.)

There is simply no mystery here. Is it that upsetting that God's supposed role has been usurped yet again?