Determinism vs Free Will

[John_S3V]

Free will may or may not exist with or without determinism. If the universe is indeterministic then how does that give you any more freedom than if it's determined? Randomness isn't free control ("free will") at all. With or without determinism I personally see no reason to believe in free will, but that's because I'm an incompatiblist, I use the definition of free will that's incompatible with determinism and such a definition I find too ridiculous to believe in.

There is also a compatabilist definition. This is a definition of free will that is compatible with determinism - so yes, the thread title is a false dictotomy too if you count the compatiabilists into the argument. I personally don't bother with a compatabilist definition of "free will" because such a definition is so loose and weak I find it both meaningless and misleading. I'd rather just say I don't believe in free will.

EvF

I like how you phrased the one sentence. "Randomness isn't free control ("free will") at all."

That seems to be what he was getting at is control vs lack of control. Sure, free will is free in the sense that some divine being isn't stopping you from carrying out your well, but one's will is controlled by the fact that their will is ultimately decided by predetermining or arbitrary factors. In either case, it's controlled.

Even if we gained control over our will, (through planet of the ape labotomies), how we utilized our control over our will would ultimately be determined by other causes such as the people and enviornmental factors around us. Without omnipotence ultimate control cannot be obtained.