(July 30, 2014 at 10:44 pm)MPCADF Wrote: For me it is really simply why I don't believe in atheism, because the universe can't come from nothing, that is, non-existence, because that which does not exist can't cause anything, since it doesn't exist. We only have evidence of causation from 'something', no evidence to the contrary.
And I don't believe in atheism because the universe(s) could not have always existed because if it (they) had then by definition there would have been an be an infinite regress of cause and effects, so you would have had an eternity to come into being before now, so you should have already happened. And self-contradictorily, you would never have existed because a past eternity would continue to go on for eternity, thus never reaching this point of existence now.
Atheism is not a belief in anything. It is a lack of belief in god, no more nor less. It is not even an affirmative belief that there is no god.
So what you really are arguing a that you have proof of god.
But it isn't a good proof. My daughter demolished it when she was four and in the why stage. "If god created everything, then who created god." From the mouths of babes, from the mouths of babes.
But even her question is giving you too much. You see there are two possibilities: 1) Everything has always existed; or 2) Everything suddenly came into existence. Both are equally mindboggling. Neither is proof of god because god would have necessarily either had to always have existed or suddenly sprang into existence.
Quote:Therefore, by this evidential reasoning, I conclude nature needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, being uncreated. This uncreated Creator is Whom I call God. Logical, since we know the uncreated Creator exist, it is incumbent upon us to find out where God reveals Himself personally. The initial caveat is that God is not self-contradictory so only one religion can be the correct one.
Not only is the first mover "proof" easily demolished by a five year old, but if it worked it would only prove that there was a first mover, not that that first mover is still in existence, cares about humans, did more than start the ball rolling, or even that it was sentient.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.