Uzi death

[The Grand Nudger]

It seens as nebulous as saying "white culture" (which I still have yet to get a good definition of).

What is "gun culture" and how does it keep idiots from reigning supreme?

To add to the wiki, in order to have such close proximity to firearms all of this time - and in order to use them to effect, we've developed alot of different systems, rules, - essentially normative statements regarding their operation. Nothing there to really stop "idiots from reigning supreme" any more than there is in any other normative system. All I can say is that people who do silly shit with guns have lost sight of the centuries of experience we have with them. They don't respect gun culture( and so they don't respect themselves or others- I would add).

A human being holding a firearm is the most dangerous thing in the room. If he doesn't fuck it up through ignorance or malice the firearm will win out with stamina. It doesn't get tired or sleepy - or drunk. A chambered round kept indoors can be fired many years later - long past when a reasonable human being can expect their memory to hold absolutely. Gun culture knows this, gun culture was shaped by this through attrition if nothing else. Gun culture knows that children are particularly dangerous...because gun culture doesn't expect them to have learned all (or even enough) of it's mores and systems.

Honestly, in response to Rhythm's comment I think calling it a sub-culture just completely underplays how prevalent the gun-toting mindset so obviously is.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28958364

I mean, look at this shit. 18 people aged 24 and younger die every day from firearms in the US. 55 percent of US homes with children and firearms in which one or more weapons are kept in an unlocked place. There's no law or limit to how young someone can be to fire a weapon. I know I come from a place where guns are outright banned, but even to you guys this must be absurd.

Yes, but the "gun-toting" mindset is not the "gun nut" mindset. The "gun toting" mindset is just a demographic of self reported ownership. Plenty of those folks, folks who hand a 9yr old an Uzi are a special breed.

With regards to law. Federal law prevents anyone under the age of 18 from possessing a handgun or handgun ammunition (there are exceptions). Many more state laws pile of top of that. It is, effectively, most everywhere in the US, illegal for a minor to even hold a handgun. While we often see that "Daddy's Cannon" gets into their hands- we can't ignore the fact that daddy broke the law. Daddy is rarely charged, and most often, when he is charged - it's civil...damages. Every so often daddy is enough of a shitbag that the prosecutors feel that John Q won;t raise a fuss (or he's the wrong shade of lipstick) and they go criminal. I'd say that we should apply the criminal proceedings that our law already contains as a preliminary. Make sure the guys cleared criminally before we consider civil charges. You know, law enforcement and the judiciary doing their jobs (rather than whatever the fuck they've been doing recently)- that sort of thing?

There are no meaningful federal laws with regards to age and long guns
(more on this later)

Obviously, it goes without saying that most gun owners are probably responsible, law abiding citizens. But a major part of the problem IMHO is that much of the law enables these kinds of bizarre circumstances to happen, it makes it easier for shootings to happen.

The law enables any number of bizarre and dangerous circumstances - yes. If we're trying to gauge the bizarre things the law either implicitly or effectively allows it's going to take awhile to generate the list - I think in this case, it's further stretched by half assing the enforcement of laws that are already on the books.

Are you telling me that this American gun culture hasn't had an impact on the laws you currently have? The laws that aren't good enough in this day and age?

It's had a hell of an impact. We have states, for example, than ban concealed yet permit open carry. We have states that ban open carry but permit concealed carry. Our gun culture has definitively sided with the long gun, the fact that handguns are federally restricted while long guns approach the level of sacred - is something to consider here. Our gun culture has led to alot of our gun law - including safety. I'd withhold judgement on whether or not the laws are good enough until we consistently enforce them (the same thoughts behind my position on gun control).

They may not be good enough, in the end, though - that's always a possibility. What do we have to lose at this point, really? I say we give enforcement a fair shot downrange. We can talk about the grouping later, and make adjustments to the sights as the picture emerges.

The gun culture itself breeds situations where you have "Burgers 'n' Bullets" restaurants where fucking kids can go and shoot guns and 'have a good time'. IMHO more Americans need to wake up and smell the damn coffee, instead of using lines like "alcohol kills people, shouldn't we ban alcohol too?".

Yeah, not my gun culture. The nuts of the world want a place to congregate like the rest of us. Is it really that surprising that a group of people who would take their kid to a "bullets and burgers" might be the same group that gets shot up by a 9 yr old with an Uzi? This is the same sort of guy who would let his kid drive his freightliner down an interstate, isn't it? He's a fucking moron, his kids probably not too bright either (and can you blame the kid - daddy is his finest example.....). The man clearly needed some gun culture in his life, because here he is now - fucking around with kids and military hardware. The same applies to the "range instructor".

That "line" is one of the most profound currents in our political ideology (rights, and what the government can or should do to them). Americans aren't going to stop thinking about it. I don't think that we should ban alcohol, and I don't think that we should ban guns. I think that's a shitty argument as well - but probably not for the same reasons. There's no need for me to wake up. I live here (hell, I live in an open carry state, Kentucky - grew up in a concealed carry state, "Shoot your carjacker in the face on a crowded street" Florida. I'm aware of the problem. I'm also aware that we have laws, and that these laws are (for a variety of politically expedient reasons) not taken seriously.