(August 27, 2014 at 9:15 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: I'm sure everyone here is familiar with the standard problem of evil argument and the typical conception of the Christian God.. as the omnipotent and omnibenevolentIf you are speaking of the typical Omni max God know that is a catholic based version of the God, not of the bible. The bible does not say God is omni benevolent. Rather the oppsite. There are those in whom God of the bible hates.
Quote:Absolute of all things...God is the alpha and omega, meaning He chooses who what and how He displays his attributes.
Quote:well almost all things, as his will is apparently unable to oversee the abolition of grotesque evil in the world.Do you even understand the basics of biblical Christianity? God sent His son to die so all 'evil' would not have to be dealt with on the spot. Fore God sees all sin on the same level. it is our collective 'morality' that puts in on a sliding scale.
(Meaning if not for Christ's planned sacrifice we wouls all have to be dealt with eg the great flood.
Quote:Christians regularly tout free will as the impediment to his omnipotence; they like to say, "Well, this is the best of all possible worlds because a world without any grotesque evil would also be a world with severely limited wills" (as if our wills aren't already severely limited by physical determinants).Again a catholic construct based in greek philosphy. We are not free willed, rather the bible tells us we are slaves to sin with only one choice. That choice is to accept redemption.
Quote:Anyway, putting aside the issue of free will and accepting the intelligibility of the concept as Christians would have us do (for the sake of my argument, not because I think it's intelligible), I would like to press this issue more to the point as I think it will demonstrate the vicious and utter vacuousness rampant in their philosophical outlook.Sounds like fun
Quote:It appears obvious that here we see a problem with the "best-of-all-possible-worlds" scenario arise. If this is truly the best possible world God could create, then what's all the fuss about heaven?What makes you think this is meant to be anything besides a prooving ground?
Quote:If heaven is an even better domain to live in than earth (and I would sure like to think so), then Christians would seem obliged to revoke any notion of their sacred free will in heaven.Heaven is simply the place where God's known glory is not hidden from us. it is His home. It is not our dewelling place.
Quote:"But, ah!" the Christian is likely to retort, "in heaven, we choose to be good all the time! Our freedom is not impugned because we have made our choice on earth, since that is the purpose of our free will here, that it allows us to choose God, and that makes heaven an even better possible domain to dwell in! Therefore, no one in heaven will want to do evil!"So?
So, we're free in heaven, and it's even better than earth. If that seems consistent to you, just wait, because it gets worse. You see, from what I have gathered, Christians like to think that the aforementioned retort negates any objection that God could have just foregone this creation altogether and transported his children to this even better existence called heaven. Apparently, that we "choose" God is very important.
Quote:And this brings us to the rampant vacuousness and inconsistency in their logic. Anyone with a cursory interest in history will easily observe that for the past 100-200 thousand years, the vast majority of humans who have been conceived (which is apparently when the soul gets miraculously created) have either died in the womb, at birth, or before the age of moral accountability, which for our purposes, we'll say is no less than ten years of age. So, granted the position Christians commonly take, there are BILLIONS of people in heaven (kids do go to heaven, right?), perhaps far more than are in hell, and none because of their "free will."If this world is not meant to be anything more than a prooving ground, then wouldn't it make sense to send a kid who did not 'proove' himself back through the mill?
"We are appointed once to live..." If we did not have a chance at life then why not give the one in question another appointment?