(August 27, 2014 at 9:15 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: I'm sure everyone here is familiar with the standard problem of evil argument and the typical conception of the Christian God as the omnipotent and omnibenevolent Absolute of all things...well almost all things, as his will is apparently unable to oversee the abolition of grotesque evil in the world. Christians regularly tout free will as the impediment to his omnipotence; they like to say, "Well, this is the best of all possible worlds because a world without any grotesque evil would also be a world with severely limited wills" (as if our wills aren't already severely limited by physical determinants). Anyway, putting aside the issue of free will and accepting the intelligibility of the concept as Christians would have us do (for the sake of my argument, not because I think it's intelligible), I would like to press this issue more to the point as I think it will demonstrate the vicious and utter vacuousness rampant in their philosophical outlook.First of all, atheist always think: "IF there is a God, why is there so much evil and suffering in the world?" My question would be; what is beyond man's control? We have it in our collective power as humans to fix most of those problems. And "with" God, it would be all the better!
(August 27, 2014 at 9:15 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: It appears obvious that here we see a problem with the "best-of-all-possible-worlds" scenario arise. If this is truly the best possible world God could create, then what's all the fuss about heaven? If heaven is an even better domain to live in than earth (and I would sure like to think so), then Christians would seem obliged to revoke any notion of their sacred free will in heaven.Because free will isn't necessary in heaven. Evil is eradicated! There are no choices between good & evil.
"But, ah!" the Christian is likely to retort, "in heaven, we choose to be good all the time! Our freedom is not impugned because we have made our choice on earth, since that is the purpose of our free will here, that it allows us to choose God, and that makes heaven an even better possible domain to dwell in! Therefore, no one in heaven will want to do evil!"
(August 27, 2014 at 9:15 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: So, we're free in heaven, and it's even better than earth. If that seems consistent to you, just wait, because it gets worse. You see, from what I have gathered, Christians like to think that the aforementioned retort negates any objection that God could have just foregone this creation altogether and transported his children to this even better existence called heaven. Apparently, that we "choose" God is very important.No. Ironically, and confusingly we really don't have free will. We "had" free will. As in our nature is sin, right from the get-go(Adam & Eve)! And God knowing the outcome? God actually chooses us! Fortunate for some. Unfortunate for many. A reason I don't try to convert anyone! Just spread the word for a few late bloomers!
(August 27, 2014 at 9:15 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: And this brings us to the rampant vacuousness and inconsistency in their logic. Anyone with a cursory interest in history will easily observe that for the past 100-200 thousand years, the vast majority of humans who have been conceived (which is apparently when the soul gets miraculously created) have either died in the womb, at birth, or before the age of moral accountability, which for our purposes, we'll say is no less than ten years of age. So, granted the position Christians commonly take, there are BILLIONS of people in heaven (kids do go to heaven, right?), perhaps far more than are in hell, and none because of their "free will."Well.... how does man understand God? Through other men? Or can man actually think like God does? And strive for those elusive thoughts of the Supreme Being in the universe! The Maker of EVERYTHING!
If this isn't inconsistency, I don't know what is.
For the sake of argument:
Who's to say how old those souls really are in those babies? Just because the flesh dies (maybe over and over again) that wouldn't mean anything to an immortal soul? What if this human existence were a school of sorts? What if we've had many, many chances to "get it right"? What "IF" God ultimately wanted us to be like Him? How would He go about doing that? Would He just hand it to us? And we would probably end up killing him... and each other? Because really, there can only be one God. I mean that's our nature. Its what we are.
"If we only had evidence?"
Just for the sake of argument... what "IF" God was smarter than us?
Quis ut Deus?
