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Determinism
#30
RE: Determinism
You just add another religious concept, i.e. the dualistic idea that reality consists of material and immaterial or what I prefer natural and supernatural components, to the picture. But it does not change the validity of my statement. If reality (no matter whether it's the natural or the alleged supernatural component of it) is such that it does not allow contracausal free will, there is no room for a soul natural or supernatural that is uncaused.

Dualism as the dichotomy of natural and supernatural stuff is a troublesome concept for other reasons. For if the two are separate, how can they influence each other? I do contend that religious concepts that claim dualism have an additional problem. But even religions that don't claim duality and do claim independent ageny of souls have the problem I sketched above. So in fact the problem of contracausal free will in our reality is precisely the same as libertarian free will in our reality.

You seem to assume that when I speak of 'reality' I mean only the natural part of it, but that is not the case when I say "If determinism is true for the reality we live in it follows that contracausal freewill cannot exist". It's true that I can't extend a conclusion of physical determinism from the natural to the supernatural, but please observe that I haven't made such an assertion.

However if the religious assert that the supernatural is part of that reality and that souls are contracausal supernatural agents that affect the natural, it's up to the religious to show all of the following:
1) that the supernatural exists as part of reality
2) that the supernatural harbours contracausality
3) that the supernatural can affect the natural.

NB: I prefer natural vs supernatural because there indeed are things in the natural world (such as information and concepts) that are part of the natural world.
"I'm like a rabbit suddenly trapped, in the blinding headlights of vacuous crap" - Tim Minchin in "Storm"
Christianity is perfect bullshit, christians are not - Purple Rabbit, honouring CS Lewis
Faith is illogical - fr0d0
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Messages In This Thread
Determinism - by mem - June 19, 2010 at 2:31 pm
RE: Determinism - by Edwardo Piet - June 19, 2010 at 3:09 pm
RE: Determinism - by WingedFoe - June 20, 2010 at 12:23 am
RE: Determinism - by Purple Rabbit - June 20, 2010 at 6:30 am
RE: Determinism - by Minimalist - June 20, 2010 at 1:46 am
RE: Determinism - by mem - June 20, 2010 at 10:29 am
RE: Determinism - by WingedFoe - June 20, 2010 at 2:48 pm
RE: Determinism - by Edwardo Piet - June 20, 2010 at 3:20 pm
RE: Determinism - by Purple Rabbit - June 20, 2010 at 4:28 pm
RE: Determinism - by Edwardo Piet - June 21, 2010 at 6:42 am
RE: Determinism - by Purple Rabbit - June 21, 2010 at 2:29 pm
RE: Determinism - by Caecilian - June 21, 2010 at 5:50 pm
RE: Determinism - by Caecilian - June 21, 2010 at 7:25 am
RE: Determinism - by Edwardo Piet - June 22, 2010 at 7:21 am
RE: Determinism - by Purple Rabbit - June 22, 2010 at 2:36 pm
RE: Determinism - by Caecilian - June 22, 2010 at 6:21 pm
RE: Determinism - by Edwardo Piet - June 23, 2010 at 7:49 am
RE: Determinism - by Purple Rabbit - June 23, 2010 at 3:50 pm
RE: Determinism - by Caecilian - June 23, 2010 at 5:10 pm
RE: Determinism - by Edwardo Piet - June 25, 2010 at 6:05 am
RE: Determinism - by Caecilian - June 25, 2010 at 6:49 am
RE: Determinism - by Purple Rabbit - June 26, 2010 at 4:02 am
RE: Determinism - by Caecilian - June 26, 2010 at 7:16 am
RE: Determinism - by Edwardo Piet - June 26, 2010 at 3:02 am
RE: Determinism - by Purple Rabbit - June 26, 2010 at 8:14 am
RE: Determinism - by Caecilian - June 26, 2010 at 8:44 am
RE: Determinism - by mem - June 26, 2010 at 9:38 am
RE: Determinism - by Purple Rabbit - June 26, 2010 at 11:03 am
RE: Determinism - by Caecilian - June 26, 2010 at 1:32 pm
RE: Determinism - by Purple Rabbit - June 26, 2010 at 3:05 pm
RE: Determinism - by Caecilian - June 26, 2010 at 7:43 pm
RE: Determinism - by Purple Rabbit - June 27, 2010 at 3:25 am
RE: Determinism - by Caecilian - June 27, 2010 at 7:24 pm
RE: Determinism - by chasm - June 28, 2010 at 9:10 pm
RE: Determinism - by Caecilian - June 29, 2010 at 6:58 am

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