RE: Refuting misconceptions:3-Authenticity and preservation of the Quran
June 28, 2010 at 9:00 am
(This post was last modified: June 29, 2010 at 10:51 am by annatar.)
Lies lies lies..
According to Turan Dursun quran has been changed over time.
It is a shocking claim. Becouse Islam world believe in otherwise for certain.
Lets see whats his evidences about this issue.
First of all he says all of the original scripts of quran were burnt.
Why they did it?
“I did it because those that were written in it were already conveyed into the official copy (Mushaf) and kept as they were. I was afraid that after a long time passed, sceptic ones would have doubts about the official copy.” Mervan Ibn Hakem says.
But this is an irrational claim. If there had been no difference between the two. Why would anyone doubt that? “If there had not been some additions to or removals of some verses from it, why should they have been afraid?” Turan says. And at this point he refer to a witness, Ibn Omar;
“None of you should say that he has got the whole Quran. You can never know that most of the Quran has been destroyed and gone forever. Therefore you should only say that you have got whatever has remained from it.” (See Suyuti, el ıtkan, 2/32.) This alone is enough to see that quran has been changed..
But lets look how they gathered original one,
According to hadiths some of the verses were found written on different objects(such as tree leaves or small stones.)in muhammed's house.
Caliph abu bakr gathered the objects so they would not get lost.
Why he did this?
According to buhari,some muslims were converting to their old beliefs
and people who knew quran by hearth were diminishing. So before complately forgotten, quran had to be put together in a book. First they were afraid of doing this becouse Muhammed never intended to gather verses in a book.
“How could it be right to do what the Prophet himself had not done?” Abu Bakr thought.
But finally they were decided to do that. So the task had given to Zeyd Ibn Sabit.
Abu Bakr said to Zeyd;
"You are a clever young man. As you used to be one of the scribes of the Prophet, I believe that you can succeed in doing this job. Search for all the verses and gather them together."
“In the name of Allah I swear that if he had wanted me to move and carry one of those mountains, it would not have been as difficult to me as to do what he told me to do." Zeyd answered.But he was convinced to do this task.Here his own testimony, how he carried out this important task;
“I began to collect the verses; some were on date leaves, some on stones.
I got some from people who had memorized them. In the end, I got the last verses of the Sura “Repentance” (Al Tawba)
from Ebu Huzeymetu'l-Ensari. No-one else had those verses in mind.”
Zeyd explains that those were the last verses(128 – 129) of the Sura “Repentance”
So here you can see Zeyd was depending on people who had memorized the verses and
the objects on which the verses were inscribed.
Again, according to Buhari there were only seven people who had memorized all of the verses.
Even in Muhammad’s time, few people had been able to do that. Here are the hadiths in Buhari’s “e’s-Sahih”.
The first hadith: Amr Ibnu'l-Ass conveys, “I heard the Prophet say,
‘Get the Quran from four people; Abdullah Ibn Mes'ud, Salim, Muaz and Übeyy Ibn Ka'b. (Buhari, Fadailu'l-Kuran 8.)
The second hadith: Enes conveys, “When the Prophet passed away,
there was no-one other than only four people to have memorized the whole of the Quran; Ebu'd-Derda,
Muaz Ibn Cebel, Zeyd Ibn Sabit and Ebu Zeyd." (Buhari.)
The third hadith: Katade conveys, “I asked Enes Ibn Malik the number of the
people who had memorized the whole Quran and he replied, ‘They are four altogether,
all from Medina; Übeyy Ibn Ka'b, Muaz Ibn Cebel, Zeyd Ibn Sabit and Ebu Zeyd
When we make a list of the names in these three hadiths, there must have been seven people to have memorized the whole Quran when Muhammad was alive.
(i give up here. becouse its too long and this part alone is enough to prove that quran is changed..)
For more information you can check;
http://www.turandursun.net/en/criticism/...-more.html
According to Turan Dursun quran has been changed over time.
It is a shocking claim. Becouse Islam world believe in otherwise for certain.
Lets see whats his evidences about this issue.
First of all he says all of the original scripts of quran were burnt.
Why they did it?
“I did it because those that were written in it were already conveyed into the official copy (Mushaf) and kept as they were. I was afraid that after a long time passed, sceptic ones would have doubts about the official copy.” Mervan Ibn Hakem says.
But this is an irrational claim. If there had been no difference between the two. Why would anyone doubt that? “If there had not been some additions to or removals of some verses from it, why should they have been afraid?” Turan says. And at this point he refer to a witness, Ibn Omar;
“None of you should say that he has got the whole Quran. You can never know that most of the Quran has been destroyed and gone forever. Therefore you should only say that you have got whatever has remained from it.” (See Suyuti, el ıtkan, 2/32.) This alone is enough to see that quran has been changed..
But lets look how they gathered original one,
According to hadiths some of the verses were found written on different objects(such as tree leaves or small stones.)in muhammed's house.
Caliph abu bakr gathered the objects so they would not get lost.
Why he did this?
According to buhari,some muslims were converting to their old beliefs
and people who knew quran by hearth were diminishing. So before complately forgotten, quran had to be put together in a book. First they were afraid of doing this becouse Muhammed never intended to gather verses in a book.
“How could it be right to do what the Prophet himself had not done?” Abu Bakr thought.
But finally they were decided to do that. So the task had given to Zeyd Ibn Sabit.
Abu Bakr said to Zeyd;
"You are a clever young man. As you used to be one of the scribes of the Prophet, I believe that you can succeed in doing this job. Search for all the verses and gather them together."
“In the name of Allah I swear that if he had wanted me to move and carry one of those mountains, it would not have been as difficult to me as to do what he told me to do." Zeyd answered.But he was convinced to do this task.Here his own testimony, how he carried out this important task;
“I began to collect the verses; some were on date leaves, some on stones.
I got some from people who had memorized them. In the end, I got the last verses of the Sura “Repentance” (Al Tawba)
from Ebu Huzeymetu'l-Ensari. No-one else had those verses in mind.”
Zeyd explains that those were the last verses(128 – 129) of the Sura “Repentance”
So here you can see Zeyd was depending on people who had memorized the verses and
the objects on which the verses were inscribed.
Again, according to Buhari there were only seven people who had memorized all of the verses.
Even in Muhammad’s time, few people had been able to do that. Here are the hadiths in Buhari’s “e’s-Sahih”.
The first hadith: Amr Ibnu'l-Ass conveys, “I heard the Prophet say,
‘Get the Quran from four people; Abdullah Ibn Mes'ud, Salim, Muaz and Übeyy Ibn Ka'b. (Buhari, Fadailu'l-Kuran 8.)
The second hadith: Enes conveys, “When the Prophet passed away,
there was no-one other than only four people to have memorized the whole of the Quran; Ebu'd-Derda,
Muaz Ibn Cebel, Zeyd Ibn Sabit and Ebu Zeyd." (Buhari.)
The third hadith: Katade conveys, “I asked Enes Ibn Malik the number of the
people who had memorized the whole Quran and he replied, ‘They are four altogether,
all from Medina; Übeyy Ibn Ka'b, Muaz Ibn Cebel, Zeyd Ibn Sabit and Ebu Zeyd
When we make a list of the names in these three hadiths, there must have been seven people to have memorized the whole Quran when Muhammad was alive.
(i give up here. becouse its too long and this part alone is enough to prove that quran is changed..)
For more information you can check;
http://www.turandursun.net/en/criticism/...-more.html
Quote:Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends.
Gandalf The Gray.