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Belief and Knowledge
RE: Belief and Knowledge
(November 1, 2014 at 10:59 am)Rhythm Wrote: Again, "not all effects have causes" is an oddly specific claim to attach to to our inability to ascertain any given cause. We've been in this position countless times (and we are in this position with other things as well) - Did rain "not have a cause" before we discovered it? Why do you imagine that you need to throw causality out the window in the face of QM in the first place? You don't. Even though we are in the dark, what we do observe can still be modeled and predicted with deterministic methods (this is a dividing line within the larger field, and while I know next to nothing about it I like to keep up with the usual apologist/wooster claptrap). This "QM or causality but not both" shit is just ridiculous. Do you really want to attach this to your god?

You don't get it. Its not an inability to ascertain.

Bells theorem tells us for some events, there are no local causes. That leaves you two choices that I can see A)some events are un-caused. B)the causes of some events are non local. Unless we throw out the last century of physics...this conclusion about our world is not going to change.
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Messages In This Thread
Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 29, 2014 at 8:19 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Chad32 - October 29, 2014 at 8:26 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 29, 2014 at 8:40 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - October 30, 2014 at 12:49 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Chad32 - October 29, 2014 at 8:57 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by LostLocke - October 29, 2014 at 8:58 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 29, 2014 at 9:24 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - October 30, 2014 at 12:49 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Fidel_Castronaut - October 30, 2014 at 11:55 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by LostLocke - October 30, 2014 at 7:43 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - October 30, 2014 at 1:00 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - October 29, 2014 at 9:20 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Jenny A - October 29, 2014 at 10:25 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 29, 2014 at 11:40 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Surgenator - October 30, 2014 at 12:04 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Jenny A - October 30, 2014 at 2:20 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 30, 2014 at 2:58 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - October 30, 2014 at 3:15 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Esquilax - October 30, 2014 at 3:47 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 30, 2014 at 9:00 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mudhammam - October 30, 2014 at 9:41 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Chas - October 30, 2014 at 9:41 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Esquilax - October 31, 2014 at 1:33 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - October 31, 2014 at 3:24 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 31, 2014 at 10:21 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - November 3, 2014 at 11:39 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - November 3, 2014 at 12:02 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Cato - November 3, 2014 at 12:16 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - November 3, 2014 at 12:29 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Cato - November 3, 2014 at 1:30 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Chas - November 3, 2014 at 1:43 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - November 3, 2014 at 7:34 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - November 3, 2014 at 9:44 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Chas - November 3, 2014 at 10:11 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Silver - November 3, 2014 at 10:40 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - November 4, 2014 at 12:17 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Fidel_Castronaut - November 4, 2014 at 11:19 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - November 7, 2014 at 7:39 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Whateverist - November 7, 2014 at 9:39 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - November 7, 2014 at 9:56 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Whateverist - November 7, 2014 at 11:29 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - November 7, 2014 at 12:01 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mudhammam - October 30, 2014 at 7:18 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Jenny A - October 30, 2014 at 11:53 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 31, 2014 at 1:16 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Jenny A - October 31, 2014 at 10:55 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Lao Shizi - October 29, 2014 at 10:33 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Surgenator - October 29, 2014 at 11:35 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Whateverist - October 30, 2014 at 2:30 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by fr0d0 - October 30, 2014 at 3:17 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Cato - October 30, 2014 at 8:37 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - October 30, 2014 at 12:02 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by genkaus - October 30, 2014 at 12:30 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - October 30, 2014 at 12:33 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by genkaus - October 30, 2014 at 1:54 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - October 30, 2014 at 2:21 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Esquilax - October 30, 2014 at 2:52 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by genkaus - October 30, 2014 at 4:36 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - October 30, 2014 at 4:58 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by genkaus - October 30, 2014 at 5:00 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Jackalope - October 30, 2014 at 7:57 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Whateverist - October 31, 2014 at 9:53 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 31, 2014 at 10:12 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Jenny A - October 30, 2014 at 12:49 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Cato - October 30, 2014 at 12:51 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - October 30, 2014 at 12:56 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by coldwx - October 30, 2014 at 1:05 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - October 30, 2014 at 1:16 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by coldwx - October 30, 2014 at 1:29 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Faith No More - October 30, 2014 at 2:40 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - October 30, 2014 at 3:01 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Cato - October 30, 2014 at 3:07 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - October 30, 2014 at 2:52 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Whateverist - October 30, 2014 at 9:30 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - October 30, 2014 at 2:40 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by fr0d0 - October 30, 2014 at 5:20 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Chas - October 30, 2014 at 5:27 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - October 31, 2014 at 1:00 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by LastPoet - October 30, 2014 at 8:43 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by FreeTony - October 30, 2014 at 9:04 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by fr0d0 - October 30, 2014 at 9:48 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mudhammam - October 30, 2014 at 10:33 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Lao Shizi - October 30, 2014 at 10:24 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Esquilax - October 30, 2014 at 11:43 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 30, 2014 at 2:29 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Simon Moon - October 30, 2014 at 2:47 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 30, 2014 at 3:07 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Cato - October 30, 2014 at 3:12 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by FreeTony - October 30, 2014 at 12:41 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - October 30, 2014 at 12:46 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - October 30, 2014 at 12:45 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by FatAndFaithless - October 30, 2014 at 3:01 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2014 at 5:47 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2014 at 10:06 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - October 31, 2014 at 1:20 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - October 31, 2014 at 9:09 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 31, 2014 at 9:14 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Minimalist - October 31, 2014 at 1:27 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by FatAndFaithless - October 31, 2014 at 10:13 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 31, 2014 at 10:57 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Cyberman - October 31, 2014 at 10:00 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - October 31, 2014 at 10:34 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by LastPoet - October 31, 2014 at 10:39 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Esquilax - October 31, 2014 at 9:00 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by FatAndFaithless - October 31, 2014 at 10:37 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - October 31, 2014 at 10:41 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by FatAndFaithless - October 31, 2014 at 10:58 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 31, 2014 at 11:05 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by FatAndFaithless - October 31, 2014 at 11:09 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 31, 2014 at 11:17 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by FatAndFaithless - October 31, 2014 at 11:20 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Angrboda - October 31, 2014 at 11:33 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by FatAndFaithless - October 31, 2014 at 11:36 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 31, 2014 at 11:40 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by FatAndFaithless - October 31, 2014 at 11:45 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - October 31, 2014 at 11:04 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - October 31, 2014 at 11:08 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mothonis - October 31, 2014 at 1:59 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - October 31, 2014 at 10:24 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 31, 2014 at 10:37 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - October 31, 2014 at 10:46 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mudhammam - November 1, 2014 at 3:04 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Whateverist - November 1, 2014 at 8:07 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - November 1, 2014 at 8:24 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by downbeatplumb - November 1, 2014 at 10:27 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - November 1, 2014 at 10:39 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - November 1, 2014 at 10:54 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - November 1, 2014 at 10:59 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - November 1, 2014 at 11:05 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - November 1, 2014 at 11:16 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Whateverist - November 1, 2014 at 12:03 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - November 3, 2014 at 12:01 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Whateverist - November 3, 2014 at 7:40 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - November 3, 2014 at 1:04 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Fidel_Castronaut - November 7, 2014 at 10:54 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by FatAndFaithless - November 7, 2014 at 11:30 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by comet - November 7, 2014 at 1:11 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - November 7, 2014 at 6:50 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by comet - November 9, 2014 at 8:10 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - November 9, 2014 at 8:34 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by abaris - November 9, 2014 at 8:38 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - November 9, 2014 at 8:42 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by abaris - November 9, 2014 at 8:47 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - November 9, 2014 at 9:06 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by abaris - November 9, 2014 at 9:16 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - November 9, 2014 at 11:59 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Whateverist - November 9, 2014 at 12:49 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by FatAndFaithless - November 7, 2014 at 1:20 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - November 9, 2014 at 4:59 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - November 9, 2014 at 7:38 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - November 9, 2014 at 8:24 pm

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