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What/Who created God?
#57
RE: What created God?
(July 7, 2010 at 8:19 am)Godhead Wrote: I understand that some people don't believe in god, but if you're going to discuss the attributes or qualities of god, even if just hypothetically, you have to understand what you're discussing. For example, if I claim that god exists and has no creator, you can't discuss god in the same context that you'd discuss anything else. An example of this is when Richard Dawkins talked about how if there's a god, it must be extremely complex if it is to be able to create everything, and so it must have started out simple, and evolved. To me that shows a lack of understanding of what is being discussed. Here's why :

I don't think Dawkins meant it in such a way, but I'll entertain your argument. A being who created everything must be, by definition, more complex than his creation. Whether God is immutable (unchanging) or has any other attributes is not the question.

What I want you to do is to read my first post, and reply to it. I wrote specific questions that I would like theists to answer.

Please clearly define your God, and clearly convey the best explanation of why an infinite regress is not possible, and preferably one that does not negate the qualities or necessity of the God in question at the same time. Thanks.

(July 7, 2010 at 8:19 am)Godhead Wrote: - If god created everything, then in order to create, it must create from itself, as there is nothing else to create from, since god is the creator of every thing

First, that's a bit of circular reasoning. You start with the conclusion, and end at the conclusion.
Second, what does "it must create from itself" mean? It sounds like an utterly vague and vacuous concept.

(July 7, 2010 at 8:19 am)Godhead Wrote: - So, if god is directly the source of everything, and nothing exists other than god and what it creates, then there can be nothing that can or would create god

Why does nothing exist other than what God creates? Why is God's will effective rather than ineffective?

(July 7, 2010 at 8:19 am)Godhead Wrote: - By definition god would not have evolved, as that involves changing. For something to change there must be a framework, a reference, a context. If god is the creator of every thing, this would include any framework, reference or context in which it would change. And if god is the creator of every thing, then everything that has and ever will occur is already within god's capability.

That doesn't answer anything, nor does it address any of my questions or arguments.

You're also not making an account for the nature of God, which he is confined to. If he is the author of such a nature, why did he choose such a nature over any others?

I can't really go any further without you making a definition of God and his attributes, however.

(July 7, 2010 at 8:19 am)Godhead Wrote: - If a proposed creator of literally every thing exists, then it is not like us. What applies to us doesn't necessarily apply to god. We evolve, whereas a creator of every thing, by definition, wouldn't.

Now please explain to me how this isn't special pleading, and what evidence you have to suggest that this is at all true.

(July 7, 2010 at 8:19 am)Godhead Wrote: So if there's a god, then this god isn't a creation, it is selfexistent.

You haven't explained why. You've just made assertion after assertion. Please answer my first request and we can get the ball rolling.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
What created God? - by tavarish - June 20, 2010 at 1:01 pm
RE: What created God? - by Minimalist - June 20, 2010 at 1:10 pm
RE: What created God? - by theVOID - June 20, 2010 at 6:14 pm
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - June 22, 2010 at 10:40 am
RE: What created God? - by Pastor Ezequiel Davis - June 22, 2010 at 2:31 pm
RE: What created God? - by Purple Rabbit - June 22, 2010 at 2:58 pm
RE: What created God? - by Pastor Ezequiel Davis - June 22, 2010 at 3:41 pm
RE: What created God? - by Minimalist - June 22, 2010 at 3:47 pm
RE: What created God? - by Purple Rabbit - June 22, 2010 at 4:02 pm
RE: What created God? - by downbeatplumb - June 22, 2010 at 3:05 pm
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - June 22, 2010 at 3:13 pm
RE: What created God? - by Purple Rabbit - June 22, 2010 at 3:24 pm
RE: What created God? - by Minimalist - June 22, 2010 at 3:44 pm
RE: What created God? - by Darwinian - June 22, 2010 at 3:07 pm
RE: What created God? - by Purple Rabbit - June 22, 2010 at 3:10 pm
RE: What created God? - by downbeatplumb - June 22, 2010 at 3:22 pm
RE: What created God? - by Darwinian - June 22, 2010 at 3:44 pm
RE: What created God? - by Pastor Ezequiel Davis - June 22, 2010 at 3:57 pm
RE: What created God? - by Minimalist - June 22, 2010 at 4:03 pm
RE: What created God? - by Purple Rabbit - June 22, 2010 at 4:08 pm
RE: What created God? - by Ace Otana - June 22, 2010 at 4:14 pm
RE: What created God? - by strattosphere - July 10, 2010 at 6:44 am
RE: What created God? - by Darwinian - June 22, 2010 at 3:57 pm
RE: What created God? - by Purple Rabbit - June 22, 2010 at 4:04 pm
RE: What created God? - by Samson - June 22, 2010 at 3:59 pm
RE: What created God? - by downbeatplumb - June 22, 2010 at 4:02 pm
RE: What created God? - by Darwinian - June 22, 2010 at 4:05 pm
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - June 22, 2010 at 4:15 pm
RE: What created God? - by Purple Rabbit - June 22, 2010 at 4:39 pm
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - June 23, 2010 at 3:20 pm
RE: What created God? - by tackattack - June 23, 2010 at 3:23 pm
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - June 23, 2010 at 4:00 pm
RE: What created God? - by annatar - June 23, 2010 at 6:05 pm
RE: What created God? - by Paul the Human - June 23, 2010 at 6:34 pm
RE: What created God? - by tackattack - June 24, 2010 at 12:35 am
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - June 24, 2010 at 2:33 pm
RE: What created God? - by tackattack - June 25, 2010 at 12:52 am
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - June 25, 2010 at 1:39 am
RE: What created God? - by tackattack - June 25, 2010 at 4:26 am
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - June 25, 2010 at 4:03 pm
RE: What created God? - by tackattack - June 26, 2010 at 2:29 am
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - June 26, 2010 at 3:48 am
RE: What created God? - by tackattack - June 26, 2010 at 4:26 am
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - June 28, 2010 at 9:58 am
RE: What created God? - by fr0d0 - June 28, 2010 at 6:12 pm
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - June 28, 2010 at 7:44 pm
RE: What created God? - by tackattack - June 29, 2010 at 2:06 am
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - June 29, 2010 at 10:40 am
RE: What created God? - by tackattack - June 30, 2010 at 7:35 am
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - July 7, 2010 at 3:06 am
RE: What created God? - by tackattack - July 8, 2010 at 6:19 am
RE: What created God? - by theVOID - July 8, 2010 at 7:33 am
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - July 8, 2010 at 9:48 am
RE: What created God? - by tackattack - July 9, 2010 at 7:35 am
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - July 9, 2010 at 9:38 am
RE: What created God? - by tackattack - July 10, 2010 at 4:25 am
RE: What created God? - by The Omnissiunt One - July 10, 2010 at 3:05 pm
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - July 10, 2010 at 4:21 pm
RE: What created God? - by tackattack - July 13, 2010 at 7:35 am
RE: What created God? - by Rhizomorph13 - June 24, 2010 at 1:56 pm
RE: What created God? - by annatar - June 24, 2010 at 3:04 pm
RE: What created God? - by Purple Rabbit - June 25, 2010 at 2:10 pm
RE: What created God? - by Purple Rabbit - June 26, 2010 at 2:37 am
RE: What created God? - by The_Flying_Skeptic - June 29, 2010 at 2:36 am
RE: What created God? - by fr0d0 - June 29, 2010 at 3:28 pm
RE: What created God? - by Godhead - July 7, 2010 at 8:19 am
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - July 7, 2010 at 9:19 am
RE: What created God? - by Godhead - July 7, 2010 at 1:42 pm
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - July 7, 2010 at 3:32 pm
RE: What created God? - by chatpilot - July 7, 2010 at 3:16 pm
RE: What created God? - by Godhead - July 7, 2010 at 5:21 pm
RE: What created God? - by chatpilot - July 7, 2010 at 5:39 pm
RE: What created God? - by Godhead - July 7, 2010 at 5:46 pm
RE: What created God? - by chatpilot - July 7, 2010 at 6:12 pm
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - July 7, 2010 at 10:36 pm
RE: What created God? - by Samson - July 8, 2010 at 2:05 am
RE: What created God? - by The Omnissiunt One - July 8, 2010 at 11:48 am
RE: What created God? - by Ace Otana - July 9, 2010 at 8:22 am
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - July 9, 2010 at 9:08 am
RE: What created God? - by Ace Otana - July 9, 2010 at 9:11 am
RE: What created God? - by Godhead - July 9, 2010 at 9:48 am
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - July 9, 2010 at 10:04 am
RE: What created God? - by Godhead - July 9, 2010 at 10:37 am
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - July 9, 2010 at 10:59 am
RE: What created God? - by fr0d0 - July 9, 2010 at 11:52 am
RE: What created God? - by Godhead - July 9, 2010 at 12:31 pm
RE: What created God? - by Paul the Human - July 9, 2010 at 12:37 pm
RE: What created God? - by Godhead - July 9, 2010 at 12:41 pm
RE: What created God? - by Paul the Human - July 9, 2010 at 12:45 pm
RE: What created God? - by Godhead - July 9, 2010 at 1:06 pm
RE: What created God? - by Paul the Human - July 9, 2010 at 1:13 pm
RE: What created God? - by Ace Otana - July 9, 2010 at 1:17 pm
RE: What created God? - by Godhead - July 9, 2010 at 1:19 pm
RE: What created God? - by Paul the Human - July 9, 2010 at 1:24 pm
RE: What created God? - by Godhead - July 9, 2010 at 1:27 pm
RE: What created God? - by Paul the Human - July 9, 2010 at 1:31 pm
RE: What created God? - by Godhead - July 9, 2010 at 1:37 pm
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - July 9, 2010 at 8:28 pm
RE: What created God? - by Ace Otana - July 9, 2010 at 1:43 pm
RE: What created God? - by Godhead - July 9, 2010 at 8:38 pm
RE: What created God? - by In This Mind - July 10, 2010 at 12:58 pm
RE: What created God? - by Godhead - July 10, 2010 at 1:04 pm
RE: What created God? - by In This Mind - July 10, 2010 at 2:38 pm
RE: What created God? - by Minimalist - July 10, 2010 at 1:33 pm
RE: What created God? - by Godhead - July 10, 2010 at 1:35 pm
RE: What created God? - by Minimalist - July 10, 2010 at 7:24 pm
RE: What created God? - by Godhead - July 10, 2010 at 5:25 pm
RE: What created God? - by In This Mind - July 10, 2010 at 6:37 pm
RE: What created God? - by Godhead - July 10, 2010 at 6:41 pm
RE: What created God? - by In This Mind - July 10, 2010 at 6:48 pm
RE: What created God? - by Godhead - July 10, 2010 at 7:01 pm
RE: What created God? - by Godhead - July 10, 2010 at 7:27 pm
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - July 10, 2010 at 9:03 pm
RE: What created God? - by Godhead - July 10, 2010 at 9:25 pm
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - July 10, 2010 at 9:33 pm
RE: What created God? - by Godhead - July 10, 2010 at 9:36 pm
RE: What created God? - by tavarish - July 10, 2010 at 9:58 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by leo-rcc - August 2, 2010 at 3:10 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by theVOID - August 2, 2010 at 7:06 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by fr0d0 - August 2, 2010 at 7:41 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by theVOID - August 2, 2010 at 7:56 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by fr0d0 - August 3, 2010 at 6:01 am
RE: What/Who created God? - by theVOID - August 3, 2010 at 5:09 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by fr0d0 - August 3, 2010 at 8:09 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by tavarish - August 4, 2010 at 1:19 am
RE: What/Who created God? - by theVOID - August 4, 2010 at 1:50 am
RE: What/Who created God? - by fr0d0 - August 4, 2010 at 5:51 am
RE: What/Who created God? - by theVOID - August 5, 2010 at 5:10 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by tavarish - August 4, 2010 at 10:12 am
RE: What/Who created God? - by fr0d0 - August 4, 2010 at 11:31 am
RE: What/Who created God? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 4, 2010 at 12:33 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by tavarish - August 3, 2010 at 4:59 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by Spencer - August 4, 2010 at 10:36 am
RE: What/Who created God? - by Rhizomorph13 - August 4, 2010 at 5:00 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by Spencer - August 4, 2010 at 9:02 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by fr0d0 - August 4, 2010 at 12:43 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 4, 2010 at 1:36 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by fr0d0 - August 4, 2010 at 2:18 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 4, 2010 at 2:38 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by rjh4 - August 4, 2010 at 3:19 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 4, 2010 at 7:30 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by leo-rcc - August 4, 2010 at 7:48 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 4, 2010 at 8:12 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by Godschild - August 4, 2010 at 11:08 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 5, 2010 at 12:03 am
RE: What/Who created God? - by Godschild - August 5, 2010 at 1:26 am
RE: What/Who created God? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 5, 2010 at 2:13 am
RE: What/Who created God? - by rjh4 - August 5, 2010 at 11:37 am
RE: What/Who created God? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 5, 2010 at 1:14 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by fr0d0 - August 5, 2010 at 3:26 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 5, 2010 at 3:47 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by fr0d0 - August 5, 2010 at 6:26 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 5, 2010 at 6:43 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by Godschild - August 5, 2010 at 4:30 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 5, 2010 at 5:03 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by Godschild - August 5, 2010 at 11:42 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 6, 2010 at 12:29 am
RE: What/Who created God? - by DiRNiS - August 6, 2010 at 12:53 am
RE: What/Who created God? - by Rhizomorph13 - August 6, 2010 at 2:43 am
RE: What/Who created God? - by Godschild - August 6, 2010 at 10:54 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by fr0d0 - August 4, 2010 at 8:19 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 4, 2010 at 8:40 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by Edwardo Piet - August 4, 2010 at 4:45 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by fr0d0 - August 4, 2010 at 8:57 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 4, 2010 at 9:05 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by fr0d0 - August 4, 2010 at 9:09 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 4, 2010 at 9:29 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by fr0d0 - August 4, 2010 at 9:34 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 4, 2010 at 9:40 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by fr0d0 - August 4, 2010 at 9:49 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 4, 2010 at 10:03 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by tavarish - August 5, 2010 at 11:36 am
RE: What/Who created God? - by fr0d0 - August 4, 2010 at 10:08 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 4, 2010 at 10:26 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by fr0d0 - August 4, 2010 at 10:32 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 4, 2010 at 10:52 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by fr0d0 - August 5, 2010 at 5:12 am
RE: What created God? - by DeistPaladin - August 5, 2010 at 11:11 am
RE: What/Who created God? - by Minimalist - August 5, 2010 at 11:14 am
RE: What/Who created God? - by tackattack - August 6, 2010 at 12:18 am
RE: What/Who created God? - by tackattack - August 7, 2010 at 4:37 am
RE: What/Who created God? - by Minimalist - August 7, 2010 at 8:41 am
RE: What/Who created God? - by Godschild - August 8, 2010 at 10:40 pm
RE: What/Who created God? - by Minimalist - August 8, 2010 at 11:00 pm
Who Created God? - by Spencer - August 1, 2010 at 12:34 pm
RE: Who Created God? - by fr0d0 - August 1, 2010 at 1:24 pm
RE: Who Created God? - by superstarr - August 1, 2010 at 1:26 pm
RE: Who Created God? - by SleepingDemon - August 1, 2010 at 2:12 pm
RE: Who Created God? - by Shinylight - August 1, 2010 at 2:25 pm
RE: Who Created God? - by Minimalist - August 1, 2010 at 2:31 pm
RE: Who Created God? - by fr0d0 - August 1, 2010 at 2:52 pm
RE: Who Created God? - by Shinylight - August 1, 2010 at 2:57 pm
RE: Who Created God? - by fr0d0 - August 1, 2010 at 3:10 pm
RE: Who Created God? - by Shinylight - August 1, 2010 at 3:20 pm
RE: Who Created God? - by Spencer - August 1, 2010 at 3:53 pm
RE: Who Created God? - by fr0d0 - August 1, 2010 at 4:01 pm
RE: Who Created God? - by Minimalist - August 1, 2010 at 6:09 pm
RE: Who Created God? - by SleepingDemon - August 1, 2010 at 9:45 pm
RE: Who Created God? - by Minimalist - August 1, 2010 at 9:58 pm
RE: Who Created God? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 2, 2010 at 4:44 am
RE: Who Created God? - by Tiberius - August 2, 2010 at 9:17 am
RE: Who Created God? - by fr0d0 - August 2, 2010 at 6:36 pm
RE: Who Created God? - by tavarish - August 2, 2010 at 1:51 pm
RE: What/Who Created God? - by Tiberius - August 2, 2010 at 2:34 pm

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