(November 3, 2014 at 10:16 pm)IDScience Wrote:'Exian Wrote:Lets just use the increments we see on earth and let our intelligence play the role of the highest possible achievement in that arena. We start with the emergence of life, which we then build on to create ever increasing intelligence until we arrive at us. It's at this point that you would then state humans have created everything. Do you see the giant hole in your argument?"
Why would I state that at that point?. I would state, I observe an ever increasing intellectual capacity/ varying degrees of intelligence here on earth, then extend that to its logical conclusion. And to me that logical conclusion stops only at the point in which everything that can be known is known -if knowledge is limited-. Or intelligence levels continue to grow/evolve for all of eternity. When I extend the theory of "evolution of intelligence" as far as critical thought will take it, God then becomes a logical possibility.
Quote:"The reason we can agree on a 1% higher intelligence is that we can look at the current gradient existing today, as well as our own evolutionary journey. But even if we use this reasoning to arrive at the maximal level of intelligence, how does this intelligence then go back and create everything that it built itself on for its own existence?"
This brings up another topic. I believe God "evolved" (via self direction) before the singularity and before the 2nd law of thermodynamics existed. The first law is never violated, therefore we must believe energy in some form existed for all of eternity in the past. And because entropy can not be eternal, usable energy must have existed forever in the past. Therefore this eternal usable energy had literally forever to become aware of its self, i.e. “I think therefore I am” (abiogenesis of God).
And any life form that exists in a place in which entropy does not exist, can never die, and any life form that can never die must eventually become/evolve into an all knowing all powerful being, no matter how painstakingly long it may take.
Therefore if the eternal "something" exists, the chances of it becoming a sentient all knowing being is 1/1 (100%) because it has literally all of eternity for it to happen. Thus if the eternal something exists, God must also exist. And atheistic science knows this very well, this is why they need an illogical "something from nothing" hypothesis to reject God from existing.
Your idea of a lifeform independent of entropy which becomes aware and persists, tied to energy only, as a self-aware structure of some sort no matter what happens to entropy, does seem very problematic to me. First of all, entropy basically is what gives us our arrow of time, where more likely macroscopic states are later than less likely ones (to criminally simplify a bit). Without it, there is no real notion of cause and effect. The idea that an intelligence persists and evolves throughout time independently of entropy requires some serious theoretical effort to bridge this gap, by default it just looks wrong.
If we assume, for the sake of argument, that you manage to construct such a thing and show that it is in the least bit plauaible, you still are stuck with the problems that there is no evidence for a plane of reality (in the form of physical degrees if freedom) in which such a being would be realized *and* has some form of administrator rights for access to our reality, such that the name "God" would at all be justified. This is not something you can just claim to be obvious. What's more, for your argument to hold, you need to show that this unusual physical proposal is not just a vague possibility, but rather a necessity. Until then, you simply have no case.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition