Systematically Dismantling Atheism

[Asmodee]

I've actually had this argument before. The way you deliver your response matters quite a bit here. Yes, there is either belief (I believe God exists) or non-belief (I don't believe God exists) if you look at it that way, but there are actually 2 possible beliefs. All three of the following are valid

1) I believe God exists
2) I believe God does not exist
3) I hold no belief either way

And those are not the only three possible answers, either. Each person's beliefs or lack thereof are his or her own; theirs to have, theirs to define. You could answer "I believe there is SOMETHING. I don't know if I'd label it as God". What the hell does that mean? I have no idea, but it's a valid answer because the person giving it is expressing what their beliefs are.

In the argument I had before those who believed there were only 2 possible positions were working off a definition for atheism that, frankly, they just made up based on some chart of words and combinations of those words which were possible which could, in their opinion, definitively define a person's beliefs and, thus, label them without question. This was, of course, not true. They were getting hung up on definitions and insisting that those definitions which, again, they simply made up and agreed upon as a community, were 100% accurate, unquestionable, all the time, the end. The problem is they don't fit people who claim to be agnostic as it tries to shoehorn them into a label they are not comfortable with and, frankly, which doesn't fit them. If you want to get hung up on definitions then agnostic is a word with a definition as a valid position on religion. Beliefs are so varied from person to person that it's a little small-minded to think you can narrow people's beliefs down to 2 simple categories without question, in my opinion.

UGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG and UGGGGGGGGGGGG


No you are being simple minded.

Nobody sits on the fence. That false position was stupidly concocted by Huxley.

Everyone as a degree of leaning one way or the other. If one leans to "I suspect there is, but I am not sure. That is still leaning. The only thing "Agnostic" can apply to is the future.

If you lean to "off" again, the only thing agnostic can refer to is the future.

Everyone still leans in one direction or the other. No different than a dimmer switch on a light. I can get brighter or dimmer but it cannot be both on and off at the same time.

Which way you lean still is separate than being sure or not sure.

I disagree. You are treating opinions and beliefs as absolutes instead of abstract concepts. You are trying to definitively quantify what a person can and cannot believe as if there are a set of rules which cannot be broken. You know full well that one can hold two or more opposite beliefs simultaneously. It is not logical. It does not make sense. But it is possible and every fiery-pit believing Christian does it. They believe both in the perfect love for us their God has and that he will punish us for non-belief by lighting us on fire for all eternity. The two beliefs are mutually exclusive, but that does not stop Christians from holding both. To try to pin down what beliefs can and can't be and quantify them with absolute definitions is, frankly, stupid when you are fully aware that beliefs are not absolutes, do not need to make sense and do not follow any such rules, or any rules at all, for that matter.

But let's say you are right. Everyone leans at least a little one way or another. What does that mean? It means we are born either atheist or theist and change can come only instantaneously. Which way does a baby lean? Wait until he's 12 and ask him, then you'll know which way he leaned all along, right? And if we imagine this leaning as the needle on a gauge and we start deconverting a theist then there is no point where the needle reaches zero. If you were to chart the way they lean for every second of their life the needle would slowly decline until there was a sudden jump to the other side with no data in between. A person would go from theist one second to atheist half a second later. Because that's exactly how the human brain works. It's all digital. Ones and zeroes, on and off. I may be "simple minded", but I'm pretty sure Intel didn't design my brain.