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determinism versus indeterminism
#42
RE: determinism versus indeterminism
(January 7, 2009 at 1:47 pm)josef rosenkranz Wrote: I don't have the skill to deny anything about quantum mechanics and I didn't deny either the existence of the Casimir effect.
However as counterintuitive as a problem might be ,even in such a domain demanding high knowledge of physics,I don't believe that the essence of it is unaccessable to common wisdom.
Therefore I asked an din't get a clear answer if the Casimir effect means the creation of an event out of nothing previous ,which was my understanding of your statement of "pure random",or it is the causal effect of some previous event.
I'm not sure if this has been explained before, but...

There are particle-antiparticle pairs popping into and out of existence all around us (this is otherwise known as the 'quantum foam'). The Casimir effect is the force felt between two metal plates: they are so close together that fewer pairs can pop into existence between them than outside them. This means that more pairs are colliding with the plates on the outside than the inside, thus pushing the plates further together by a fraction.

Basically, the Casimir effect is where spontaneously generating particles push two metal plates closer together. Wiki has a good picture:

[Image: 300px-Casimir_plates.svg.png]

NB: 'vacuum fluctuations' simply means the fluctuations in a vacuum due to the spontaneously generating particles.

So yes, the Casimir effect is evidence of 'creation ex nihilo'

(January 7, 2009 at 1:47 pm)josef rosenkranz Wrote: The item of this thread is determinism vs. indeterminism ,(which in my view bears consequences related to aheism,even if some members of this forum disagree),so from this point of view I said that it would be interesting to learn from your knowledge about the Casimir effect.
Indeterminism is a simple consequence of the quantum mechanical nature of the universe: not only is it impossible to know the exact position and momentum of a particle, but it doesn't have an exact position and momentum until you try to measure it (measuring its position lets you know where it is with more accuracy, but lowers the accuracy with which you know its momentum. Mathematically, ΔxΔp ≥ ħ/2).
"I am a scientist... when I find evidence that my theories are wrong, it is as exciting as if the evidence proved them right." - Stargate: SG1

A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, -- a mere heart of stone. - Charles Darwin
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Messages In This Thread
determinism versus indeterminism - by josef rosenkranz - December 13, 2008 at 1:44 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Edwardo Piet - December 13, 2008 at 4:01 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Purple Rabbit - December 13, 2008 at 5:14 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by josef rosenkranz - December 20, 2008 at 1:26 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Purple Rabbit - December 27, 2008 at 3:04 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by josef rosenkranz - December 29, 2008 at 3:33 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Edwardo Piet - December 13, 2008 at 4:17 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Tiberius - December 13, 2008 at 4:18 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by josef rosenkranz - December 16, 2008 at 2:26 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Purple Rabbit - December 16, 2008 at 3:00 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by josef rosenkranz - December 18, 2008 at 4:47 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Purple Rabbit - December 18, 2008 at 5:28 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Edwardo Piet - December 13, 2008 at 4:20 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Tiberius - December 13, 2008 at 4:27 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Edwardo Piet - December 13, 2008 at 4:30 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Edwardo Piet - December 13, 2008 at 5:20 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Purple Rabbit - December 13, 2008 at 5:54 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Edwardo Piet - December 13, 2008 at 6:57 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Purple Rabbit - December 13, 2008 at 7:34 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Edwardo Piet - December 13, 2008 at 7:55 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by josef rosenkranz - December 20, 2008 at 12:05 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Purple Rabbit - December 20, 2008 at 12:10 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Edwardo Piet - December 20, 2008 at 8:50 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Purple Rabbit - December 29, 2008 at 4:51 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by josef rosenkranz - January 1, 2009 at 3:14 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Purple Rabbit - January 1, 2009 at 5:00 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Edwardo Piet - December 29, 2008 at 5:09 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Purple Rabbit - December 29, 2008 at 6:02 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Edwardo Piet - December 29, 2008 at 6:41 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Purple Rabbit - December 29, 2008 at 7:44 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Edwardo Piet - December 29, 2008 at 7:50 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Purple Rabbit - December 30, 2008 at 4:52 am
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Edwardo Piet - December 30, 2008 at 7:52 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Purple Rabbit - December 31, 2008 at 8:42 am
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Edwardo Piet - December 31, 2008 at 2:09 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Purple Rabbit - January 1, 2009 at 7:00 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by josef rosenkranz - January 2, 2009 at 3:42 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Purple Rabbit - January 3, 2009 at 12:56 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by josef rosenkranz - January 7, 2009 at 1:47 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by Purple Rabbit - January 7, 2009 at 3:06 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by DD_8630 - January 8, 2009 at 8:17 am
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by josef rosenkranz - January 9, 2009 at 1:00 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by DD_8630 - January 9, 2009 at 4:36 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by josef rosenkranz - January 10, 2009 at 2:07 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by DD_8630 - January 11, 2009 at 6:03 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by josef rosenkranz - January 12, 2009 at 1:28 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by DD_8630 - January 12, 2009 at 3:45 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by josef rosenkranz - January 14, 2009 at 2:09 pm
RE: determinism versus indeterminism - by peregrine - January 15, 2009 at 7:58 am

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