RE: Detecting design or intent in nature
January 18, 2015 at 3:18 am
(This post was last modified: January 18, 2015 at 3:28 am by Heywood.)
(January 17, 2015 at 7:20 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Why does Heywood think intelligence is required for evolution?
It's like saying water needs intelligence to flow down hill, I just don't get how he isn't getting this.
Same reason I think intelligence is required for cars to exist. Now suppose everyone was suddenly vaporized but stuff like buildings and cars remained intact. Cars would not need intellects to persist....at least for the immediate future. However it would be wrong to say that because cars can persist without intellects that they don't require intellects.
Evolutionary systems are the same way. You don't necessarily need intellects around for them to persist, but you do need intellects around to implement them in the first place. Now the reason I have come to this conclusion is because I have observed evolutionary systems and have noticed that all the evolutionary systems I have observed which I know the details of their origination all required intellect to be implemented. I have never observed an evolutionary system which I can say with any confidence did not require intellect to be implemented.
Rhythm is desperately trying to refute this argument by claiming that evolutionary systems are merely procedural generations and procedural generations happen all the time in nature without intellects. I agree that some procedural generations happen in nature without intellects but I also realize that some do not. When you are playing Skyrim specific procedural generations are being implemented that would likely never occur without intellects.
Further, Evolution is more that just a procedural generation. It is a process and not all processes can be implemented without intellects. If you agree that evolution is a process and that not all processes can be implemented without intellects, then you should be open to the question of whether evolution is one of those processes which can't be implemented except in the presence of intellects.
Evolution seems to be one of those processes as evidenced by the fact that we never see new evolutionary seems implemented except in the presence of intellects. If someone wants to present an example of an evolutionary system which has been observed to come into existence without intellects, I would be very happy to see it.
Last, there are certain specific elements of evolution. They are:
replication
heritable traits
change
selection
Rhythm denies these specific elements of evolution by calling them "weasel words". Why those participating in this thread give him a pass on that is beyond me. When he calls those elements "weasel words" he sounds like a fundamentalist or a Young Earth Creationist who has no understanding of evolution.
I challenged Rhythm to show that procedural gens like river systems include these elements which define evolution. He refuses.....because he can't. Does anyone else want to take up the challenge?
