Detecting design or intent in nature

[downbeatplumb]

This seems relevant.

it was on the BBC news site today.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02gsh40

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Why does Heywood think intelligence is required for evolution?

It's like saying water needs intelligence to flow down hill, I just don't get how he isn't getting this.

Same reason I think intelligence is required for cars to exist. Now suppose everyone was suddenly vaporized but stuff like buildings and cars remained intact. Cars would not need intellects to persist....at least for the immediate future. However it would be wrong to say that because cars can persist without intellects that they don't require intellects.

This is the blind watchmaker argument that Darwin proved incorrect over a hundred years ago.

Evolutionary systems are the same way. You don't necessarily need intellects around for them to persist, but you do need intellects around to implement them in the first place.

You are trying to sneak god in the same way theists try to sneak it into morality and gravity.
"Who sets the morals?" you ask.
"Who set the strength of gravity and speed of light?"
"Who set evolution in motion?"

The answer to all of the above is no-one.
So why are they the way they are?

With gravity and the speed of light we don't know yet but are working on it.

But we do know why evolution is the way it is, which is why your argument is so stupid.

It is easy to understand how it developed without guiding intelligence.
It is what happens when things start to mingle and breed.

Remember for over a billion years that life existed on earth there was no breeding and life went along making only small changes then sex came along and bam the speed of change exploded. So your god of evolution did not start for over a billion years, where was he?
No where of course.

Now the reason I have come to this conclusion is because I have observed evolutionary systems and have noticed that all the evolutionary systems I have observed which I know the details of their origination all required intellect to be implemented.

Then you are insufficiently educated.

I have never observed an evolutionary system which I can say with any confidence did not require intellect to be implemented.

You are the result of just such a system.

Rhythm is desperately trying to refute this argument by claiming that evolutionary systems are merely procedural generations and procedural generations happen all the time in nature without intellects. I agree that some procedural generations happen in nature without intellects but I also realize that some do not. When you are playing Skyrim specific procedural generations are being implemented that would likely never occur without intellects.

You are mistaking men exploiting certain aspects of evolution with evolution itself. Its like the difference between a rain forrest and a garden.
Because gardens exist does not mean someone made the rain forrest.

Further, Evolution is more that just a procedural generation. It is a process and not all processes can be implemented without intellects.

You are confusing a rigid process with a blue print, with what happens in certain circumstances.

Evolution could not be simpler.

If something stops a creature or plant from reproducing then it's traits are not passed on. It a creature or plant does reproduce then it's traits are passed on.
It's that simple. Once things start breeding evolution is inevitable.

If you agree that evolution is a process and that not all processes can be implemented without intellects, then you should be open to the question of whether evolution is one of those processes which can't be implemented except in the presence of intellects.

No intelligence is required for evolution. It is inevitable once animals shared genetic information in offspring.

Evolution seems to be one of those processes as evidenced by the fact that we never see new evolutionary seems implemented except in the presence of intellects. If someone wants to present an example of an evolutionary system which has been observed to come into existence without intellects, I would be very happy to see it.

You just say the same thing over and over again hoping that if you say it enough it will become true.
It isn't.

I present all of biological evolution you can even include horse and dog breeding if you like because this is just men exploiting aspects of evolution that they've noticed, the process itself does not require intelligence.
Selective breeding is men using evolution to get specific results, what it isn't is proof that evolution requires intelligence.