Speaking to theists

[ABierman1986]

I don't think compete is quite the right phrasing, as you say, you can't compete with the belief of a savior, all you can ever do is try to engage in critical discussion and hope it turns inward.

The more you critically analyze what Jesus said and examine how he lived his life (all of it, not just what you learned in Sunday school), the harder he is to defeat. I'm not preaching Jesus to you, I'm saying that if you want to turn people away from Christianity, that's who you have to compete with, and there's a reason Christianity has survived for 2000 years and still has the same effect today as it did back then.

Oh, I'm sure you believe atheism is enlightenment, and I know a lot of people in this forum think we theists are idiots who just don't understand atheism, but when you have someone like Jesus Christ talking about God...well, just imagine sitting down with him and trying to convince him there is no God: a love so great it can take in all evil. Yeah, boy, I'm ready to become an atheist.

Well, in order to critically analyze what Jesus said there are several initial assumptions you think I am willing to concede. The first is that Jesus existed in the first place. Every symbol associated with the Christ legend has basis in older religions and older foundations still in ancient astrology. The secular writers who wrote of Christ did not appear until decades after his supposed crucifixion and they included numerous other supposed messiahs in their writings as well. There is no external record written in the time that Jesus the man supposedly walked the earth that supports his existence. So I reject this assumption as axiomatically true.

This leads to the second assumption, that what is written down is what Jesus said. The gospel of Jesus does not appear in the bible, nor does any original writing by Jesus himself appear anywhere. The gospels which record Jesus' life were written by men, and several of the gospels were handpicked to be included in the bible long after Christ's supposed death. To say that what has been recorded is the actual verse that Jesus spoke is a huge assumption that is logically inconsistent, as is a thousand person game of telephone.

When I say think critically about belief, I don't mean to pick and choose sections to critically analyze but look at the underlying consistency of the material as a whole.

I also want to fully acknowledge that if Jesus Christ came to me from Heaven, sat down to discuss God with me, and thereby proved God's existence and divinity without a doubt, I would happily convert to religion and proselytize all day long.

Atheism isn't about enlightenment, or about theists being idiots. Religion obviously has deep, deep roots within the core of humanity for one reason or another. Being a theist may in the end prove to be the right answer, I think it is a mistake to say God is false, end of story. The core of atheist thinking however is to be as harsh as possible about our beliefs, to put them through trial by fire and see if they stand up. So far religion has not passed this test, if you think we are wrong in our logic or assumptions then please discuss how so.

I am hesitant of any idea that does not bring, and warrant, questions, and it is clear why we will be wrong more often than right. What an atheist believes as true should only be that which can bear the brunt of the marvelous capacity for human intelligence.