RE: Implications of not having free will
January 26, 2015 at 7:12 pm
(This post was last modified: January 26, 2015 at 7:38 pm by IATIA.)
(January 7, 2015 at 5:28 pm)Spacedog Wrote: If what I've just said is true, then that means the future is predetermined.Only if the universe is fully deterministic with no random qualities whatsoever.
Driving, should you go left or right? If you hit a pothole that leans the car to the left, you might choose left. If, of course, the universe is fully deterministic, you were destined to hit the pothole anyway. Any randomness would make your 'free will' somewhat unpredictable. This does not make 'free will' any more free however.
(January 26, 2015 at 7:05 pm)professor Wrote: Spacedog, I had to read these pages because I am curious how anyone could think they are not free to do what they want.No thought whatsoever was put into your resonse other than "goddidiit". Unless you have some other information that we are not aware of? "I think, therefore I am" is not any better than "goddidit". As you believe that you have a 'soul' that creates your awareness separate from the chemical and electrical actions of the brain, I cannot see how you could possibly examine 'free will' objectively. Objective examination is not in the vocabulary of a theist by nature of their beliefs.
Then I see the problem - the need of a mental enema to purge the evolutionary crap out of a brain.
Ever play chess? Or checkers? Or drive a car?
You have myriad choices. You are the chooser.
What else could you be?
(January 7, 2015 at 5:34 pm)Blackout Wrote: The most serious issue by far is that criminals couldn't be convicted because their guilt was predetermined by variables they couldn't controlThat is a common notion, but the same forces that control the criminal also control the courts. They could not do otherwise either.
(January 7, 2015 at 7:33 pm)Spacedog Wrote:Learning changes things. Raccoons that have a desire to cross busy roads will not have the same breeding opportunities as raccoons that avoid the roads. Galapagos animals had no fear of man in the early days. Man was not recognized as food or a threat.(January 7, 2015 at 6:33 pm)IATIA Wrote: The real question is whether or not the accepted knowledge of no free will would change anything.If we don't have it the the answer is that it definitely won't
If we accepted no free will, then as a collective species, that would change our interaction with ourselves and the world. I have no fucking idea what the changes would be, but there would be something. I think there is a strong chance that a belief in a deity or not may be genetic.
(January 8, 2015 at 5:08 pm)Spacedog Wrote: Do you mean - do I think that a deterministic universe suggests that products of the human mind are more fundamentally real than physical objects?The only 'reality' would be the mind. One's awareness of anything is what the brain has perceived then translated into thought, vision, sound, taste, hot, cold, etc.. We really can know nothing outside our individual minds. You can convince me that my toes 'hurt' when something heavy is dropped on them and I can 'see' my toes, but there is no way to prove that I even have a body.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
