Detecting design or intent in nature

[Chas]

Dude, YOU are the one playing the semantic run-around game. We don't NEED even to define evolution.

By putting out a definition it allows us to classify things by shared characteristics. We can say automobile evolution and biological evolution are the same class of thing because they share these same characteristics.

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I am not creating a straw man of your argument, I am pointing out that your thesis is utterly flawed.

Neither your definition nor your examples are isomorphic to biological evolution.
Therefore, your arguments do not apply to biological evolution.

You've gone coo-coo. A water clock is not isomorphic to a pocket watch but both are time pieces. Arguments about time pieces would apply to both to pocket watches, and water clocks.

Arguments would only apply where they map to each other. Your definition is not specific enough to say anything interesting about biological evolution.

Again, unless the definition and examples cover the salient points, then your argument remains ineffective. Your automobile example is simply ridiculous.

In your first post in this thread, you say "I see the hand of God in nature. Every evolutionary system I have observed, whose origins are known to me, requires the existence of intelligence. Therefore I find it reasonable to conclude that the evolutionary system which produced me also required the existence of intelligence."

That is the leap of illogic that defines your entire argument. If your definition and examples don't map all the salient points of biological evolution, they don't support your thesis.

If all you are going to offer are toy systems and non-evolutionary examples, your argument is inapplicable and uninteresting. And wrong.

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There are two things I have been considering over the last couple of days. Minerals and birds nest. The system which lead to the diversity of minerals around us today....is it evolutionary? Birds nests.....some of them are pretty snazzy and I wonder if they evolved like cars do.

The birds evolved, not the nests. Nests don't reproduce.