(February 2, 2015 at 12:37 pm)Chas Wrote: It corroborates its existence external to and separate from our minds.how does that follow? many minds have a common perception, therefore this perception is something distinct from these minds? all it shows is that the minds have a commonality causing the same perception. for all you know this could be anything from a physical world, a computer program or a greater conscious we are all a part of. you have no way of knowing what this commonality is. but to assume it is a physical world causing the mental perception is assuming physical substances exist. we already know mind exists, so we aren't assuming anything we don't know by saying mind is fundamental to reality rather than matter.
(February 2, 2015 at 12:37 pm)Chas Wrote: Perception is mental states. It is the processing of external signals from the material world.yes, perception is mental states. and we therefore don't perceive anything but mental states. to postulate material causing mental states is unnecessarily postulating something more fundamental than what is most fundamental in our perception. this is in violation of Occam's Razor which is the point I've been making.
(February 2, 2015 at 12:37 pm)Chas Wrote: Unnecessary? I again ask, what are we perceiving? Perception is mental process of external stimuli.I agree that perception is a mental process. but you are the one assuming it is of external stimuli. I am postulating it is simply of mental constructs. we already know the color red is a mental construct as it doesn't actually appear in reality. is red a process of external stimuli? or is it mentally constructed as a representative of such? all we perceive is qualia. nothing more.
(February 2, 2015 at 12:37 pm)Chas Wrote: No, mind is not fundamental, mass/energy is. Mind emerges from the ordered structure and interaction of the matter and energy of the brain. Mind evolved.indeed that is your materialistic belief... but I said mind is most fundamental to our perception... not most fundamental period. if can't be denied mental states are fundamental to perception. we only debate on what is fundamental behind that perception. is it material? or is it still mind? perhaps mind extra to your own but still mind. why postulate the existence of material when only mind is necessary to explain experience? you can't verify material is real because all you have is a mental perception of material. you don't actually perceive matter.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them.
-Galileo
-Galileo
